Author Topic: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack  (Read 2919 times)

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Offline Jack

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2015, 05:16:52 PM »
You say you try to provoke me to understand me? Well geez, why can't you just ASK? That seems a lot nicer to ask.
Forgot this. Maybe simply don't know the right questions. Maybe it's just my way. Not really certain.

If you think I am saying something, you can ask "Are you saying xyz?"

You could ask me point blank- "Do you hate rich people?"

Your questions don't have to be "right".....but questions are better than provocation. Provocation is not a good way to treat anyone unless you know them well enough to make them laugh about it. But if they are not laughing, it is not good.
Actually find a lot of things you write to be provoking. Maybe that's it.

Offline sg1008

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2015, 05:42:37 PM »
I certainly did not lie when I said you made it clear, because you absolutely made it clear to me. I really am willing to accept that you didn't mean what you said the way I took it. I believe you, and stand accountable for misunderstanding. However you cannot accept any level of accountability for what you say. You are the victim.


lie 2
Syllabification: lie
Pronunciation: /lī/
noun

1.1 Used with reference to a situation involving deception or founded on a mistaken impression:
all their married life she had been living a lie

SYNONYMS
untruthfulness, fabrication, fibbing, perjury, white lies;
falseness, falsity, dishonesty, mendacity, telling stories, invention, misrepresentation, deceit, duplicity
literary perfidy

-----

I believe I have appropriately used the word lie to describe your actions.
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline sg1008

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2015, 05:49:28 PM »
One way of lying is equivocation, which is NOT the same as semantic ambiguity:

Equivocation
"Equivocation ("to call by the same name") is classified as an informal logical fallacy. It is the misleading use of a term with more than one meaning or sense (by glossing over which meaning is intended at a particular time). It generally occurs with polysemic words (words with multiple meanings).

Albeit in common parlance it is used in a variety of contexts, when discussed as a fallacy, equivocation only occurs when the arguer makes a word or phrase employed in two (or more) different senses in an argument appear to have the same meaning throughout.

It is therefore distinct from (semantic) ambiguity, which means that the context doesn't make the meaning of the word or phrase clear, and amphiboly (or syntactical ambiguity), which refers to ambiguous sentence structure due to punctuation or syntax."
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline Jack

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2015, 05:56:36 PM »
Okay, SG. You are correct. In my misunderstanding, I stated a lie. Do you still insist you never ever implied or suggested anything to cause that misunderstanding?

Offline sg1008

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2015, 10:00:38 PM »
If you take what I say in context (not just a blurb here and there), along with my responses to questions, and the fact I openly idealise a world of constant dialogue founded on mutual respect, and the fact that I am openly mixed race, it is preposterous to imagine that in all of THAT, that segregation was within any proximity of my dreams or desires. When in fact, that is probably as far from the truth as you could get. How many times have I said I valued diversity? how many times have I lamented lack of dialogue or understanding in society between peoples?

Almost anything I post about oppression is from that place. When I see imposed, politically maintained segregation it throws me into a fury...economic segregation is the worst. Self-segregation based on stereotypes is sad at best. People hating people, and people segregating people is the root of much of the discrimination and racism I complain about. How can I want apartheid/segregation when it is the thing I hate most? When it is the very thing I rant about?

If I did a poor job of making that clear, I apologise. But I know that I certainly did NOT EVER imply or suggest anything in support of segregation, or that I hated rich people, or that I find white people intrusive. I did NOT make that clear to you or anyone else. Of this I am sure.
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline sg1008

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2015, 10:11:22 PM »
If I am ever in another furious mood about oppression, and come here to rant, I will be sure to make it clearer to you where that is coming from. However, if I do not (because of being in a mood too angry to articulate), please ask me. When I am calmer I will be happy to oblige you the answers.
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline Jack

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2015, 10:44:41 PM »
I understand you didn't intend to imply any such thing, and I can't say anymore to try to make you understand to still did anyway. The things you write don't often appear to come form a place of valuing understanding. It's the same narrative which sparks so much tension in sexism. It strikes me as coming from a place of great generalizations, a place that offers no room for the individual, a place where racism only comes in one color, and a place where all white people are oppressive by default merely for being white, and if they don't understand they're an oppressor then they're just oblivious to it. It's a demonizing place that comes from, an inescapable place for the white person because the individual must accept they are born inherently bad to satisfy that narrative. Thanks for struggling through this with me, SG, I think it was a good thing for us, but I doubt I'll be participating in anymore of your future rants.

Offline Jack

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2015, 03:12:00 PM »
I doubt I'll be participating in anymore of your future rants.
I know I can come across as harsh, and I don't want this statement to be misunderstood. I knew before I even saw this thread that I'm going to have to stop having conversations with you about racially motivated topics.

Edited to remove personal stuff it was a waste of mental energy to share.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 06:21:51 PM by Jack »

Offline sg1008

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2015, 04:22:40 PM »
Well I wouldn't want you to stop participating in any of my rants...which lets face it, will probably continue because thats just how I am...all it takes is an event or an article to get my mind burning. I welcome your comments, perspectives- thats why I post. I just don't like words being put into my mouth. That is all. When I post something, my reasons for doing so may not always be simple, or easy to guess. But they are there if you ever wanted to ask.

My brain is compartmentalised, but my thinking is circular...so my perspectives are.... oblong? I dunno...just not easy to categorise my opinions because I am at any given point trying to incorporate too many POVs at once. When I offer a POV, in my head I am giving it a space it requires for everything to be balanced.
^^^
That probably made zero sense...but its how my brain works when I talk about things like oppression. So we both have issues maybe. Maybe its a spazz thing. I don't know...  :dunno:

About the skin thing- it is not a statement about how I feel, it is a statement about how people are treated in society. Its an illustration to demonstrate why it is black people are harassed just for their skin, and thought to be up to no good if they are in certain spaces like a university or a store...

what is it in the american pysche makes a cop more likely to react to a black person with gunfire than a white person? what is it that makes people misremember a white perp as black? what is it that makes a person feel less empathy for a black person than a white person? what is it that makes children as young as 4 know that black skin is uglier than white skin? what is it that makes teachers rate black boys are more disruptive than white boys displaying the same behaviour? what is it that makes black people perform worse on exams when they are reminded of their race?

those are scientific findings from our country...and they play out everyday interactions...the only way to challenge that widespread attitude in our country is to understand it. one way to understand it is to think of society in terms of spaces, and there being white spaces and black spaces. then you get a better idea of why a black person is assumed to be "out of place" in certain environments and "in place" in the ghetto. especially when you know the history of how and why black ghettos were created.

I offered that thought mainly to wolfish, because my father and I just had had a conversation about it after listening to a radio interview. a professor said it, and we agreed that that illustration was a good one for how we are treated in society. understanding is empowerment.

Of course, carrying the ghetto on our skin is not true, that is the point. it is not true, but people act as if it is.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 04:29:53 PM by sg1008 »
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline Jack

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2015, 04:59:11 PM »
You can post directly in the gallery, SG. I think we're done.

Offline sg1008

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2015, 05:15:07 PM »
removed my reply to the post in peanut gallery since you thought it irrelevant here.
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline Jack

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2015, 05:18:21 PM »
Didn't think it irrelevant; just thought it was posted here because of the rule of not responding in the gallery until the callout is over. Took me a long time to understand why behind that rule, it's okay to post gallery in the callout, but not actually in the gallery.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 05:20:14 PM by Jack »

Offline sg1008

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2015, 05:19:53 PM »
ah, okay.
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline sg1008

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2015, 05:28:52 PM »
well i only wanted it here as a continuation of our conversation, so its okay. I may hop over to the peanut gallery later.
Can't you guys even just imagine it?

Forget practicality, or your experience....can you just....imagine?

It's there. It always was.

Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: I hate callouts but here it is. Jack
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2015, 07:42:12 PM »
one way to understand it is to think of society in terms of spaces, and there being white spaces and black spaces.

It's the most fucked up understnadnng I've evefr hreaerd. :GA:
:gopher: