Sensitive?

[sg1008]

Odeon- what are your favourite Nordic tales and stories?

[Hannah]

Odeon- what are your favourite Nordic tales and stories?

oh that is a good question...

[WolFish]

My views on christianity were changed forever after reading "The Great Cosmic Mother" Back when I was in grad school I was having these things put in my hands by feminists. The part about the goddess religion had no appeal but I was struck by the perspective on the evolution of judeo-christian organized religion.
Back then I was dependent on protestant ideology and reading that book cut me loose with nothing to replace it. Eastern religion made for a better fit so my "bibles' are the Tao Te Ching and the I Ching.

Why should I not hate my neighbor?
I don't know what the Iliad says.
The bible essentially says that god won't like my behavior if I hate my neighbor.

The I Ching has a much more compelling rationale:
"Hatred is a form of subjective involvement by which you are bound to the hated object."
 Forgive, and forget.
Works for me.

I like the C.S. Lewis version of heaven. You get in if you did good.

[Jack]

Why should I not hate my neighbor?

There's very rare few things in the bible which one cannot find a equal and opposite contradictory teaching. Christianity also teaches one should place Christ first above all, even if that mean hating everyone including one's own self. Screw the neighbor. Sometimes Christians are criticized for cherry picking the bible; have done it myself, but really, what more can they do with such a conflicting manual? Brings me back to liking the Calvinists, as they see the bible simply isn't meant to be understood by everyone. There's something admirable in that level of snobbery.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ~Luke 14:26

['andersom']

My views on christianity were changed forever after reading "The Great Cosmic Mother" Back when I was in grad school I was having these things put in my hands by feminists. The part about the goddess religion had no appeal but I was struck by the perspective on the evolution of judeo-christian organized religion.
Back then I was dependent on protestant ideology and reading that book cut me loose with nothing to replace it. Eastern religion made for a better fit so my "bibles' are the Tao Te Ching and the I Ching.

Why should I not hate my neighbor?
I don't know what the Iliad says.
The bible essentially says that god won't like my behavior if I hate my neighbor.

The I Ching has a much more compelling rationale:
"Hatred is a form of subjective involvement by which you are bound to the hated object."
 Forgive, and forget.
Works for me.

I like the C.S. Lewis version of heaven. You get in if you did good.

Feminist theology, and other liberation theologies did provide a completely different look at the bible and the value it had. They had a great impact. That and the need to be more independent, and entitled to take science serious led to thorough thinking through about the authority and literal meaning of the bible. And later on to a thorough thinking through on how to deal with dogmatic history. Denying a history is impossible, it shapes persons and communities. But not denying it is something completely different than fully embracing it and saying it is all part of the truth.

When it comes to that, the Christian community is divided in two. The literal ones, and the ones taking it as part of their history, and with a critical outlook on both history and scripture. (And there is the bulk not wanting to think things like this through, of course.)

According to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a similar thing is happening now in Islam. Slowly and carefully, but real critical and historical thinking is happening she says.

['andersom']

Have always liked the Calvinists, as they believe in a pre-determined ending with a sovereign deity, so yes no reason for them in actually trying to do anything to achieve an end. Though there's a few branches of Christianity which believe in a similar way, believing they are among the pre-determined chosen, though that belief doesn't come at the expense, exception, or circumvention of faith and salvation through Christ. It's just a different interpretation of the same fundamental teaching, with the difference being determinism vs free will.

Calvin was a strict thinker in yes and no.
Luther came with the thought that there was no way to work up your way to heaven. (He wasn't the first, but it is core of his protesting against the Catholic church of his time)
Calvin took it a step further, if there were people chosen to go to heaven, there had to be people rejected too. Strict legal thinking, either completely by Calvin himself, or influenced by one of his peers.
Some say that later in life Calvin regretted having it put so sharp.

Lots of dogma is worded in extreme words, because they were made during times of conflict.

 Anathematization did not happen just like that. But, once on paper, it did not stop to be.

It's like letting to and fro shouting from an argument be the language in a book of law.

[odeon]

Odeon- what are your favourite Nordic tales and stories?

The Kalevala

[Jack]

Have always liked the Calvinists, as they believe in a pre-determined ending with a sovereign deity, so yes no reason for them in actually trying to do anything to achieve an end. Though there's a few branches of Christianity which believe in a similar way, believing they are among the pre-determined chosen, though that belief doesn't come at the expense, exception, or circumvention of faith and salvation through Christ. It's just a different interpretation of the same fundamental teaching, with the difference being determinism vs free will.

Calvin was a strict thinker in yes and no.
Luther came with the thought that there was no way to work up your way to heaven. (He wasn't the first, but it is core of his protesting against the Catholic church of his time)
Calvin took it a step further, if there were people chosen to go to heaven, there had to be people rejected too. Strict legal thinking, either completely by Calvin himself, or influenced by one of his peers.
Some say that later in life Calvin regretted having it put so sharp.

Lots of dogma is worded in extreme words, because they were made during times of conflict.

 Anathematization did not happen just like that. But, once on paper, it did not stop to be.

It's like letting to and fro shouting from an argument be the language in a book of law.

The bible actually supports that belief structure though, of a sovereign deity with a pre-determined ending. It's not like someone pulled it out of their butt. It's actually more confusing to face people who claim the bible teaches free will and faith as a matter of choice, because have personally never seen it does teach that at all.

[sg1008]

My views on christianity were changed forever after reading "The Great Cosmic Mother" Back when I was in grad school I was having these things put in my hands by feminists. The part about the goddess religion had no appeal but I was struck by the perspective on the evolution of judeo-christian organized religion.
Back then I was dependent on protestant ideology and reading that book cut me loose with nothing to replace it. Eastern religion made for a better fit so my "bibles' are the Tao Te Ching and the I Ching.

Why should I not hate my neighbor?
I don't know what the Iliad says.
The bible essentially says that god won't like my behavior if I hate my neighbor.

The I Ching has a much more compelling rationale:
"Hatred is a form of subjective involvement by which you are bound to the hated object."
 Forgive, and forget.
Works for me.

I like the C.S. Lewis version of heaven. You get in if you did good.

According to Meng Zi, its just bad kingship.

[Hannah]

I do stand for clear right and wrong, but on the other hand you can call me everything under the sun for having standards and it won't matter because I don't measure my worth by the world and what they say but by what God says about me.

I've lost friends over the standards I live by (not just talk about) and it's fine by me, their loss...Without God's grace, I'm nothing I am standing, living breathing because of the great love of a creator that just rocks my socks off...

The things that are not understood via the old testament for example, God picking the younger siblings over the older ones? I kind of get a laugh out of that one. God asking not for burnt offerings no really if you read His Heart it is for the hearts of people, for lives devoted to Him...

It's man that messed things up, we had it all in the garden it was a bit like heavenly welfare if you will...they didn't know what they had until it was lost...Haven't looked at it this way until recently and actually asking God (yea He does answer and sometimes the answers are a laugh)

What is the price of sin? death. (spiritual death and physical) OK. Check it...

The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father of the son. The righteousness of the one in right standing (they choose to make the choices to remain in right standing to the best of their ability) and the wickedness upon the wicked one. If the wicked man turns from all his sins and accepts My statutes and does what is lawful and right in my sight he shall surely live, and shall not die.

Yet the house of Israel says, the way of the Lord is  not fair. O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair? Therefore I will judge you oh house of Isreal, every one acording to his ways," say the Lord your God.

Here is God's heart: Repent and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart, and a new spirit. (as in choose to do the right thing people)

For why should you die, oh house of Israel? (yea uh why isn't it better to turn and live?) "For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies." says the Lord your God. Therefore turn and live!" Ezekiel 18:20-23:30-32

Pretty obvious what God's intent was, God didn't want robotic love from humans He wanted (and still wants) actual choice of 'Hey God, I've messed up take these broken pieces because it's all I have but I'm trusting you to lead and guide me.' In the case of many through out the entire Bible from the Old to the New and still to this day, those that are sons and daughters of the Most High those that don't just profess to be but actually live it, you can sense it when you are around them something different.

To those that choose to live the higher standard by Grace now under the New Covenant it is by Grace God's Grace that I stand and by no other. It's only by His Extravagant Love that while I was still in sin, pretty much giving God the middle finger (why lie to you guys, God or myself?) When I was cutting my skin open and not giving a crap about how it tore my family apart looking for acceptance in the wrong places and wondering why I wasn't 'accepted' when I already have been by God...

In short playing in the enemies sand box of outright evil and not playing in God's and wondering why the heck I was so filthy with the enemy's lies...(duh Hannah)

Now I make no bones about being in love with God getting dirty for Him, as in rolling up sleeves to assist others because I want to, there is joy in the journey and in the work I do everything as unto God! There is a reason it's called a peace that passes understanding, it's because it is...

I'm justified by the faith I have in who Jesus is was and is forever as do those that walk in the faith of God...

The substance of the things I hope for (In my minds eye I see them and know them to be true as I speak the truth daily) for example when I was fighting to overcome cutting it was hard as hell...quiet literately...so my hope of by God by the Grace He has damn it! I'm going to stop this nonsense the substance was the end result of now that then I was striving and struggling for...

So faith is the substance of something hoped for and the evidence of things not seen...Again not seeing the end result but believing it anyways 200 percent (you know our autie gumption, that hell or high water 'ness' we have once we get a bit between our teeth) Clinging onto the garments of God like my life depended on it (because it did)

That is the best way I can describe the faith I have and the Jesus I serve willingly, I've been even mocked by some in other churches but it's not about the buildings or the people in them...I have my home in God I'm steady in the One who is the rock of my salvation...I'm liberated from the opinions and stances of others, because they don't pin me down...God's perfect Love drowns all that out as I choose to tune into God and what is on His heart and am deaf to ridicule of others...

I do share with others God's love when they ask and when I feel lead or the subject comes up...it says to use digression in many areas of the Bible, and I do...Yet there are times when it's obvious where the line is if that makes sense which side do I stand on...The side of God's Truth Justice and Mercy Period...I love what God loves and hate what He hates...I run to God and away from the world, but I'm in the world shining the Light of God's love for people out to others so that just walking by something different is sensed, this is what is meant by being in the world but not of it...

Hope this helps clarify...love ya'll 

[odeon]

The fact of the matter is that according to your book, I will burn. How that makes the old guy kind and forgiving, I don't know. If he loves us, then why not simply say so once this life is over? Why make our time here a test?

Sorry, I don't buy it. I don't buy it at all.

But here's an Oxford scientist offering a different view. What do you think? Will she burn, too?

[WolFish]

The fact of the matter is that according to your book, I will burn. How that makes the old guy kind and forgiving, I don't know. If he loves us, then why not simply say so once this life is over? Why make our time here a test?

Sorry, I don't buy it. I don't buy it at all.

But here's an Oxford scientist offering a different view. What do you think? Will she burn, too?

Nah. They will capture her and treat her to a spiritually therapeutic manipulation after which she undoubtedly will accept her own malignant psychotiuc self obsession as her lord and savior.

Alice Walker: "It is fatal to love a god who does not love you."
That makes more logical sense to me than the other dogma.

[odeon]

Sure, they'll do it here but she'll burn in the afterlife.

['andersom']

The fact of the matter is that according to your book, I will burn. How that makes the old guy kind and forgiving, I don't know. If he loves us, then why not simply say so once this life is over? Why make our time here a test?

Sorry, I don't buy it. I don't buy it at all.

But here's an Oxford scientist offering a different view. What do you think? Will she burn, too?

Nah. They will capture her and treat her to a spiritually therapeutic manipulation after which she undoubtedly will accept her own malignant psychotiuc self obsession as her lord and savior.

Alice Walker: "It is fatal to love a god who does not love you."
That makes more logical sense to me than the other dogma.

Was just thinking about Alice Walker. Wonder when she will be all in the spotlights again. She was a hype, a needed one, about thirty years ago. Think it is about time her work resurfaces on the book shelves.

[odeon]

She is still around?