Poll

Are you exercise intolerant?

Yes (aged 40 or over)
2 (25%)
Not sure (aged 40 or over)
2 (25%)
No (aged 40 or over)
1 (12.5%)
Yes (aged less than 40)
0 (0%)
Not sure (aged less than 40)
0 (0%)
No (aged less than 40)
3 (37.5%)
It depends how much you're paying.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Author Topic: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)  (Read 920 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Walkie

  • Wooden sword crusader of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
  • Karma: 352
Quick definition:
Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_intolerance

Yeah, I know, I know. Heard all the jokes. Choose option 7 if you must, and leave the other options free for serious responses. Please? I'm curious to see how many Aspies have the same issue.  Note that I split the poll into two age groups. This is because you're more likely to get noticable symptoms as you age. I'd also like to split it by gender etc., but that would get ridiculous, fast.

My problem (as I thought)  started just a few years back. Though  I'd actually been increasingly fatigued for about 10 years previously, and was being repeatedly tested for a thyroid problem (my GP having no better ideas). Well, my Mum has severe hypothyroidism , and I was starting to get all the same symptoms (fatigue, cold intolerance, putting on weight) so it didn't really seem like that big a mystery. Neither was it very surprising that the NHS was missing it.

Then, about 5-6 years ago ago, I noticed that my calf muscles often trembled,  just as if I was  over-exerting them  , whilst I was out walking. There seemed no chance I was really overexerting them , as I've always walked slowly, had slowed down even more, and I was really minimising on walking by this time..  I didn't really connect it these tremors with  the fatigue, because...well, basically because I'm an idiot, I suppose  :apondering:

At some point in time, my Aspie habit of single-mindedly carrying on with a job until it was finished somehow got replaced by a habit of leaving everything half-done, and taking frequent breaks. I was surprised by this alteration in personality, but didn't think about it much, just vaguely surmised that I was getting ridiculously  lazy.

I had a big escalation of food intolerances and various other issues concurrently, I should note. And the whole lot just gets worse and worse. But for this post I'm just concentrating on the exercise intolerance.

I should also mention , though, in this context, that I was getting so fatigued at times that I would sleep for up to 16 hours per day, and feel pretty woozy whilst awake. This occurred in episodes , lasting up to three days. Now, I was familiar with this, as it used to always  happen following  a gluten reaction. As I was now on a gluten-free diet, and I wasn't getting those reactions any more, I initially thought I was repeatedly coming down with a virus. As I often had aching muscles, and other fever-like symptoms at the same time, that was very plausible. But as it came to recur 4-5 times per month, every month, that started wearing a bit thin.

After a few months, I noticed that I now often stumbled whilst walking...even on a perfectly flat surface.  On paying a bit of attention to my feet, I realised that sometimes one foot or other was failing to pick itself up, as expected, and dragging. This was causing the stumbling. I  accused myself of extreme laziness, and tried willing myself to pick my freaking feet up.

It next transpired that these stumbling incidents, if I went on ignoring them, would be followed by such violent muscle spasms in my calves that I would sometimes lose my footing completely and fall to the ground. This was way beyond any symptoms my Mum was getting on account of her dead thyroid gland.

At this point, I figured I'd best raise the muscle issues with my GP. I got tested for all sorts of things, all negative,  and was referred to a neurologist.

As luck would have it, I got an aggressive, arrogant  neurologist who refused to believe in any of my symptoms. She gave me a brain scan, and a 1 hour EEG test just to prove to me there was nothing actually wrong with me (she made that much clear) and then told me it was all in my head Later, it transpired that she hadn't even looked at the results of the brain scan. Dunno about the EEG.

Not that the brain scan showed anything especially relevant, but it did show something totally unmissable...a rare pituitary lesion called a craniopharyngioma, which will eventually need to be operated on. But right now, they think it's too small to be causing any of my symptoms.  I might quarrel with that (and one later neurologist actually did quarrel) but since a much better explanation has now emerged, I think they're probably right.

Shortly after that fiasco,  I was informed  by a friend that I was actually losing consciousness during some of these falling episodes (the two where he'd been present); and that it looked for all the world like an epileptic fit. Why the heck  hadn't he told me? Well, it hadn't occurred to him that unconscious is unconscious. He thought that, somehow, I already knew.

Of course, I could barely look after myself by now, let alone work, but I had my benefits stopped on account of that neurologists opinion, and spent the next two years fighting that decision in court. That's one reason why I haven't been seen on any of the forums. Too depressed by all that.  The most depressing thing of all  was that the investigation of my illness had ground to a total halt, because “refer to neurology” had been the only idea that my GP had left. So it seemed like I was destined to die a highly uncomfortable death on the streets, before anyone acknowledged I was genuinely sick.

But back to the symptoms:

By now it's very clear to me that those muscle spasms are usually triggered by exercise. Not just walking, but any light exercise  if too  prolonged. On a good day, I can manage 30 minutes light housework, or similar, before needing to rest.  On a bad day, I'll often get a tell-tale trembling in my jaw, the moment I get out of bed.

Also those episodes of hypersomnia can be, and frequently are triggered by exercise. But that's a sneaky one. It will usually start later in the day, or even the next day, after i've overdone it a bit. These past few months , it's been tediously  predictable that I'll sleep and sleep, following any  trip to the supermarket; even though I now get a lift both ways, use the trolley for support, and am otherwise as careful as can be not to tire myself. Beyond using a freaking wheelchair, I don't know  how much more careful I can be.

Most of the rest of the time, I can avoid over-exertion by pacing myself. Which means, in effect, that I'm seldom very far from my sofa :(.  When I prepare a proper meal I do it in stages, because I'm slow and clumsy, besides needing frequent rests.

I don't even need to actually feel fatigued to trigger the belated backlash, so it's not very easy to guage my limits. Especially not as I'm, constantly needing to revise those limits. :(

I also get a lot of other , erratic,  muscular symptoms such as cramps and tendonitis ; and a bunch of other neurological symptoms. Sometimes I wake from my sleep with every muscle in my body feeling sore. And I've actually  pulled  muscles in my sleep a few times (in my back, and my shoulder)  I strongly suspect that I sometimes get seizures in my sleep. But nobody is ever there to observe this.

Anyways, that's my experience of exercise intolerance.  As you probably gathered , I eventually got the NHS to take an interest again  (with help from my sister , who took a video of my walking difficulties. That's what it took, to prove it wasn't in my head).   And in the meantime, I heard about a link between Autism and Mitochondrial Disorders. On following that through, and reading and reading  and reading, it became pretty obvious to me, that  do have an underlying  metabolic disorder. I've even got my latest neurologist to refer me for investigation.

 There's an “extremely long” waiting list, however. Knowing the NHS, that probably means that I'll be dead before I reach the head of it. But I do intend to hang on, grimly.

That's why I put that poll up here, because of that link with Autism. The symptoms of MD can vary considerably betweeen affected individuals. It's not one disease, after all, but a growing number of  similar diseases , currently numbering 1000 or so .  Exercise intolerance is the most common  symptom across that spectrum.

It needn't be this severe , ofc. I've been looking back over my life, in this light, and it's blindingly obvious that it's always affected me to some degree.

I can see now that this would be why, as a child, I would walk along excruciatingly slowly, stopping to stroke very cat, and peer at every puddle, and every tiny flower growing between  the paving slabs.  More tellingly, this would be why I had (alright, still have)  frequent “absence seizures”, especially whilst walking along, so that I'd cross roads entirely unconsciously, with predictably dramatic consequences,  Not that anybody realised. They thought I was simply “dreamy”. And when I figured it out for myself (during my teens) I kept quiet, because I didn't want to be given anti-seizure drugs. Besides, it seemed harmless enough .(though if I'd thought to join all the dots, and  connect it with my notorious road-crossing episodes, I might have been forced to reconsider that)

Ironically, although I finally have been prescribed anti-seizure meds, and was finaslly willing to take them, I've had such severe adverse reactions to them  that I've had to stop  taking them altogether. I figure I'll survive a lot longer, and a whole lot more comfortably if they stop messing round with my body like that.

Also ironically, it's still in my medical notes that “epilepsy was investigated and ruled out” . This proves a bit of a problem at times (bureaucracy being bureaucracy). I've asked to have it re-investigated, but my neurologist said: it doesn't matter what's causing the seizures; it only matters to find the right drugs to control them. Huh.  I think that translates to “The NHS just doesn't have the funds to be arsed that much”. However, I still rather dread that my next neurologist might be just like my first.  And I think it's really unfair that I failed to qualify for a disabled person's travelcard, on account of not having epilepsy, nor any other condition that would qualify me.

Meh. The travelcard  wouldn't be much use to me, because walking to the bus stop is too damned tiring.  But it makes me wonder what else I might fail to qualify for.

If you want further info on fatigue, exercise intolerance and MD, the following article seems pretty concise and informative:  http://www.mitoaction.org/guide/fatigue-and-exercise-intoleranceIf you want more scholarly articles, I'm sure you can find them for yourselves. (been there, done that, buried all my references under heaps of digital garbage *sigh* )

-Walkie
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 11:08:35 AM by DrunkardsWalk »

Offline renaeden

  • Complicated Case of the Aspie Elite
  • Caretaker Admin
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 26268
  • Karma: 2538
  • Gender: Female
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2015, 06:38:42 AM »
What anti-seizure meds were you taking? I have taken a few because they often double as mood stabilisers. Lamotrigine is a good one. It can stop seizures that other medications can't.

I have always tried to keep fit. Right now I  go to the gym twice a week and walk with a walking group every Thursday. But I have always been one to pull muscles very easily. I went to the gym for a weights class this afternoon and am dreading tomorrow because I am definitely going to be sore. Happens every time.
Mildly Cute in a Retarded Way
Tek'ma'tae

Offline 'andersom'

  • Pure Chocolate Bovine PIMP of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 39199
  • Karma: 2556
  • Gender: Female
  • well known as hyke.
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2015, 06:53:44 AM »
Kid of mine and I both have been tested for epilepsy and came out negative. Youngest has absences like you describe. My mother has not been tested, but she has the feet you describe, and that now and then does precede a moment of unconsciousness that is not a regular fainting, and has appearances of epilepsy.
Neither my mother nor I have problems with the fatigue you describe though.

I hope your waitinglist won't be too long. At the moment mitochondrial conditions are quite hot, when it comes to research. So, maybe the list will shorten soon.
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!

Offline Walkie

  • Wooden sword crusader of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
  • Karma: 352
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2015, 07:05:10 AM »
What anti-seizure meds were you taking? I have taken a few because they often double as mood stabilisers. Lamotrigine is a good one. It can stop seizures that other medications can't.

I have always tried to keep fit. Right now I  go to the gym twice a week and walk with a walking group every Thursday. But I have always been one to pull muscles very easily. I went to the gym for a weights class this afternoon and am dreading tomorrow because I am definitely going to be sore. Happens every time.
Ooh , keep an eye on that.

In my last job, I was working in a warehouse, and I found that I pulled muscles a lot more often than my workmates did. The really scary thing was when I pulled a chest muscle. Thought it was a heart attack!  :LOL:  The worst was when I pulled a muscle in my buttocks, though.  I had no idea how often you use your buttock muscles til then  :LOL: I didn't think it was symptomatic of anything, except comparative clumsiness, maybe. I remember buying Devil's Claw as a remedy, but something stopped me actually taking it, thankfully. I later found out that's a really bad thing for Mitochondrial Disorders.

I also needed to eat almost constantly to keep my energy up. This turned out to be unfortunate, because it meant I'd be gulping down food  at my works station, often, without having the chance to wash my hands, ofc. When the warehouse started handling sacks of wheatflour on a regular basis, I started getting gluten reactions all the time.  That's what what stopped me working altogether,  and kickstarted my present dramatic decline in health.

I had Tegratol first, but had an allergic reaction to that. Then they tried me on Gabapentin. That seemed OK. It was actually preventing  the muscle spasms, and if I was otherwise getting sicker, that could have been coincidence. When it got to the point that I was sleeping for anything up to 24 hours at a time, and had this ghastly combination of hayfever, asthma and weak bladder when awake  (and no energy to do the laundrty ofc) I figured I'd better stop taking it (I'd already missed a few doses through oversleeping anyway)  Instantly felt a lot better, thank goodness.

I drew the line right there, because drugs nearly always have some kind of nasty adverse reaction for me; and besides, I have so many food intolerances by now, I could have a bad reaction to the cornstarch and stuff that they pad them with, just as easily.  I also found out that shitloads of drugs are toxic to Mitochondrial function, and they're still compiling that list.

I just pace myself very carefully now. The seizures are not the biggest problem anyway. The fatigue and hypersomnia are  the biggest problem for me, and there's barely a drug in the world that doesn't make those symptoms worse.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 07:08:24 AM by DrunkardsWalk »

Offline Pyraxis

  • Werewolf Wrangler of the Aspie Elite
  • Caretaker Admin
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 16680
  • Karma: 1433
  • aka Daria
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2015, 07:43:15 AM »
Is the symptom really called exercise intolerance? If it is, that seriously sucks that it sounds like something made up for special privileges, along the lines of "affluenza".

That's interesting about mitochondrial disorders. It would make sense if your muscles were somehow using up their energy very fast, or unable to access more from the blood, something like that.
You'll never self-actualize the subconscious canopy of stardust with that attitude.

Offline Walkie

  • Wooden sword crusader of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
  • Karma: 352
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2015, 07:48:11 AM »
Kid of mine and I both have been tested for epilepsy and came out negative. Youngest has absences like you describe.
EEG tests for Epilepsy usually do come out negative, even for diagnosed epileptics.  It will only show up on EEG if you have a seizure during or just before the EEG test. And it isn't guaranteed to show up then.

So , Epilepsy can't be ruled out on the basis of an EEG or any other test. They have to be interpreted in the light of your symptoms. That's how come I was screwed by having a neurologist who didn't believe in my symptoms. I almost said "No" to the test, but there was a chance that something undeniable would show, and  I deprived myself of sleep to increase the chances.

If I could do it all over again, I'd go for a long walk (well, as near to long as I can manage)  beforehand to increase my chances. The sleep-deprivation idea only made me fall asleep partway through the test  :LOL:

Where you living?  hope you're not dependant on our sodding useless British NHS.

Quote
My mother has not been tested, but she has the feet you describe, and that now and then does precede a moment of unconsciousness that is not a regular fainting, and has appearances of epilepsy.

Eek! Three generations affected. And no positive test results. You're all "perfectly healthy" I suppose. If your Mum has a test , get her try exercising first. Oh! and starving herself. because I find that low blood sugar also does the trick; and the combination of the two is irresistable.   How old is she?

Quote
Neither my mother nor I have problems with the fatigue you describe though.

Well, like I said, every case is different. And one curious feature of MD is that different generations can show radically different symptoms, even though they share the same genes.

Quote
I hope your waitinglist won't be too long. At the moment mitochondrial conditions are quite hot, when it comes to research. So, maybe the list will shorten soon.

Thanks :) But it won't. I figured out why the waiting list is so long. It's surely because everybody else heard about MD at about the same time as me, so there's been a big rush for diagnosis. However, the NHS still have MD categerised under "rare disorders" , and this reflected in the available facilities. Now,  Bearing in mind that I waited 6 months to see a neurologist, 9 months to see an endocrinologist etc. an "extremely long" wait surely  means years and years.   I was lucky to get in that waiting list at all.  They pick and choose which autistic people to test, because they can't test 'em all.  My neurologist asked me "What's the point in knowing? there's no treatment available except anti-seizure drugs, and you're getting those anyway"

Luckily, I had the right answer at the tip of my tongue (how unusual is that for an Aspie?!) . I want to know what kind of genetic inheritance my son might have. I don't want him to have to go  through the same awful experience of having his symptoms disbelieved, as I did .

Offline Walkie

  • Wooden sword crusader of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
  • Karma: 352
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2015, 07:58:59 AM »
PS. Some of you are clearly not voting on the poll. Pleeease?

And... hyke? Do check out all the possible symptoms of MD, from as many different sources as you can find.  There are loads of them. Compiling  symptomlists  for you, your daughter and your Mum might help in all sorts of ways. eg helping a consultant to decide which genes might be affected.

Offline Walkie

  • Wooden sword crusader of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
  • Karma: 352
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2015, 08:06:48 AM »
Is the symptom really called exercise intolerance? If it is, that seriously sucks that it sounds like something made up for special privileges, along the lines of "affluenza".
Yep. Is that the  American term for what we Brits used to  call "Yuppie flu" (i.e. ME/CFS)

Quote
That's interesting about mitochondrial disorders. It would make sense if your muscles were somehow using up their energy very fast, or unable to access more from the blood, something like that.

It's the latter, basically. In my own case, I'm pretty damned sure it's specifically a problem with converting fat to energy, whether my own body fat, or dietary fat.

I'm doing better on an extremely low fat/high carb diet, (even losing weight) but I wouldn't recommend that for everybody. For some forms of MD, that's pretty much the opposite of what you need.

IT's annoying that I had to work that out for myself, and get dietary advice from the web. Is my neurologist saying that not even dietary advice is available to MD patients, specific dX or no?


Offline RageBeoulve

  • Super sand nigger
  • Elder
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 16783
  • Karma: 927
  • Gender: Male
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2015, 08:14:11 AM »
I voted no, but I don't know what exercise intolerance is.
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline Walkie

  • Wooden sword crusader of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
  • Karma: 352
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2015, 08:17:41 AM »
I voted no, but I don't know what exercise intolerance is.

So. in that case,  you should have answered "Don't know" or else followed the link at the bottom of my post. Or Googled it. *sigh*
Fortunately, I set the option so people can change their minds :) cos I'm very well aware that people very often shoot now now, read later.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 08:19:58 AM by DrunkardsWalk »

Offline RageBeoulve

  • Super sand nigger
  • Elder
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 16783
  • Karma: 927
  • Gender: Male
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2015, 08:32:18 AM »
I voted no, but I don't know what exercise intolerance is.

So. in that case,  you should have answered "Don't know" or else followed the link at the bottom of my post. Or Googled it. *sigh*
Fortunately, I set the option so people can change their minds :) cos I'm very well aware that people very often shoot now now, read later.

I pretty much understood by the name "exercise intolerance" that it didn't apply to me. Sounds like a made up wimp excuse or something.
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline Walkie

  • Wooden sword crusader of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
  • Karma: 352
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2015, 08:39:41 AM »
...and then there are some who shoot their mouth off now, read never.
OK. Fine. Whatever.

Offline RageBeoulve

  • Super sand nigger
  • Elder
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 16783
  • Karma: 927
  • Gender: Male
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2015, 08:57:04 AM »
Do you feel like a victim?
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline Yuri Bezmenov

  • Drunk-assed squadron leader
  • Obsessive Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 6663
  • Karma: 0
  • Communist propaganda is demoralizing the West.
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incoroprating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2015, 10:55:24 AM »
OP  tl;dr.   :dunno:

Offline Walkie

  • Wooden sword crusader of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Dedicated Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 3121
  • Karma: 352
Re: Exericise Intolerance (incorporating personal history and NHS rant)
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2015, 11:12:14 AM »
OP  tl;dr.   :dunno:

KK, I've now added a link to the (surprisingly brief) Wikipedia definition, at the top of my post. I think the article linked to at the bottom is more informative, but it isn't any shorter than my post. And , besides, it's at the bottom. D'oh.