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Author Topic: Individuals vs Group  (Read 2573 times)

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Offline Jack

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2015, 11:22:28 AM »
I can not imagine a single group that will have no absurd and violent members.
Certainly not, but if groups actually want to be disassociated from their own vigilante terrorists, then the leaders of those groups have to do something about it, other than simply saying, we do not support... because that's seldom easy to believe.

Offline Pyraxis

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2015, 12:20:05 PM »
I didn't intend the only alternative is to cowering is to satirize them, but to stop satirizing them for fear of death is in fact cowering. I also have trouble criticizing a public reaction to people being murdered. It's not simplistic thinking, it's emotional, and I don't believe one has anything to do with the other. This isn't about thinking sensibly, not about governments or politics, it's a matter of the general public standing up and saying enough is enough. When that little town in Missouri was burning to the ground, I thought the rioters were in the wrong in their reaction, acting like stupid animals attacking people who had nothing to do with it, but I still feel wrong to criticize it like that. I know the circumstances of the two situations are different, but if the mosques of Paris were ablaze over this, I would see it as very similar.

At the point where it's become a standoff between terrorists with guns saying they want to die to avenge their prophet, and the editor of a satirical newspaper whose office has already been firebombed saying he would rather die on his feet than live on his knees, I don't think there's any coming back.

But take what happened with Kim Jong Un and The Interview. "Take this satirized movie out of theaters or we will bomb them." They would have had to answer force with force. Instead they stepped aside, long enough to rally defenses and get Obama on their side, and then they did a digital release which couldn't be easily answered with terrorist force. Cowardly, or strategically smart? It wasn't their own lives on the line, it was the innocent people in the theaters.

I haven't been able to find an account of exactly how or when the police were guarding the Charlie Hebdo building (was it just after the firebombing two years before or were there armed security at the building every day?) but it wasn't enough. You could argue that anyone who continued to work there was accepting the risk. I think it's worth looking at the situation and yes, potentially criticizing any actions that added fuel to the fire.

Simplistic thinking and emotional thinking may not be the same, but they do have a lot in common.
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Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2015, 12:48:39 PM »
Cowardly, or strategically smart? It wasn't their own lives on the line, it was the innocent people in the theaters.

I think it was cowardly, but yeah, I already said I can relate to the why of that type of cowardice.  :(
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Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2015, 12:51:31 PM »
I can not imagine a single group that will have no absurd and violent members.

Islam specifically encourages it though.


Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2015, 01:25:45 PM »
I didn't watch the whole thing, but the first three minutes makes your point perfectly. :thumbup: Fear of Islam isn't just irrational racist bull being covered up by pointing at a few people who are making the news. I once saw an interview of a cousin of Bin Laden; she said she didn't approve of his actions, but she respected him because he was true to himself and what he stands for. That's what it boils down to, maybe not really supporting something, but still respecting it. That's why I have trouble criticizing the general public when they riot against crap like this.
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Offline Icequeen

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2015, 01:54:21 PM »
Judge many by the actions of a few.

Isn't that how society works anymore?

It's sad.

Offline Gopher Gary

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2015, 02:20:30 PM »
I don't think it's really about judging the actions of a few, but the beliefs of many, and when it comes to human atrocities within their own culture, it could also be about judging both the actions and beliefs of many. I don't think it's sad, I think it's scary stuff and I'm glad I don't have to face it in my daily life.
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Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2015, 03:47:42 PM »
Judge many by the actions of a few.

Isn't that how society works anymore?

It's sad.

It isn't about people, it's about a violent, authoritarian ideology.

Peoples minds become infected with it, then they spread it, just like a virus.

Read Dr. Darrel Ray's book about it.  http://www.thegodvirus.net/

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2015, 06:18:25 AM »
I can not imagine a single group that will have no absurd and violent members.
Certainly not, but if groups actually want to be disassociated from their own vigilante terrorists, then the leaders of those groups have to do something about it, other than simply saying, we do not support... because that's seldom easy to believe.

We've got a few of those standing up, with risks for their own lives. Because the extremist POV is a bigger and bigger hype.

It is scary stuff.

Judge many by the actions of a few.

Isn't that how society works anymore?

It's sad.

It isn't about people, it's about a violent, authoritarian ideology.

Peoples minds become infected with it, then they spread it, just like a virus.

Read Dr. Darrel Ray's book about it.  http://www.thegodvirus.net/

It is a lot of criminals and petty criminals that are attracted to IS. What better than a life philosophy that cheers on violence for them.


If you look at conflicts with a religious theme, there often, if not always, is some other agenda hidden underneath. Economical, racial, or anything.
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Offline Arya Quinn

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2015, 07:04:56 AM »


Oxford University Debate on Islam

Offline Pyraxis

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2015, 11:46:26 AM »
If you look at conflicts with a religious theme, there often, if not always, is some other agenda hidden underneath. Economical, racial, or anything.

Like the hash farmer militia fighting ISIS.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/11/01/cannabis-wars-lebanese-pot-growers-arm-up-against-isis-invaders/
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Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2015, 12:49:52 PM »


Oxford University Debate on Islam

An Oxford University debate on Islam, without Christopher Hitchens, isn't a real Oxford University debate.   :M

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2015, 01:33:28 PM »
If you look at conflicts with a religious theme, there often, if not always, is some other agenda hidden underneath. Economical, racial, or anything.

Like the hash farmer militia fighting ISIS.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/11/01/cannabis-wars-lebanese-pot-growers-arm-up-against-isis-invaders/

Nice find.

Paragraphs like this stand out for me:

Quote
“Between 1991 and 1994, around 30,000 hectares of cannabis was destroyed, leaving 250,000 people and 23,000 family farms bereft of a primary source of income. It is alleged that (while thousands of small-scale farmers were left impoverished) the largest smuggling organisations were compensated with seats in the government.”
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Offline Parts

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2015, 02:25:13 PM »
If you look at conflicts with a religious theme, there often, if not always, is some other agenda hidden underneath. Economical, racial, or anything.

Like the hash farmer militia fighting ISIS.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/11/01/cannabis-wars-lebanese-pot-growers-arm-up-against-isis-invaders/

We should do our part to help them and buy more hash,  think of it like war bonds :zoinks:
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
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Offline Parts

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Re: Individuals vs Group
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2015, 02:26:20 PM »
Any group that has a prohibition against bacon has some serious issues :zoinks:
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw