European cowardice against foreign (immigrants) rapists - PC at its best...

[thepeaguy]

Good post, Peter Pan.



You moron. Not it's rather its, since the former being a contraction of it is, not a possessive pronoun like its.

Less of the fundamentalist bullshit, please, and go back to grammar school.

[ozymandias]

I don't think I posted this here, but, my sentiments are not anti-muslim.  Yet the thing that strikes me in the US and in other countries is the silence of Moderate muslims speaking out against the extremism of their Islamic bretheren.  Christians do criticize each other frequently and there are vocal divisions between Liberal, moderate and conservative christians.  If there are moderate muslims speaking out, they are few and far between!

[Litigious]

Exactly. Even if the absolute majority of muslims themselves do no harm, they're kind of silent followers to the nut cases. The few moderate muslims who actually speak out risk their lives, though.

[Scrapheap]

I don't think I posted this here, but, my sentiments are not anti-muslim.  Yet the thing that strikes me in the US and in other countries is the silence of Moderate muslims speaking out against the extremism of their Islamic bretheren.  Christians do criticize each other frequently and there are vocal divisions between Liberal, moderate and conservative christians.  If there are moderate muslims speaking out, they are few and far between!

Exactly. Even if the absolute majority of muslims themselves do no harm, they're kind of silent followers to the nut cases. The few moderate muslims who actually speak out risk their lives, though.

These are excellent points which reflect my own personal experience.

The inbred rednecks I grew up with in the Nebraska acted the same way that Islamic terrirists do. A small handfull of bullies terrorised those on the margins of society to create fear and produce order. The majority of people were decent people who did nothing ,and accepted, even rewarded the behavior of the bullies. This was the natural order of the world as they understood it and perfectly normal.

The Muslim terrorists work off the same mentality.

[Peter]

Exactly. Even if the absolute majority of muslims themselves do no harm, they're kind of silent followers to the nut cases. The few moderate muslims who actually speak out risk their lives, though.

And/or are criticised as islamophobes.

From Odeon's islamophobia-watch link:

"The latest media darling of Scandinavian politics is not only black, beautiful and Muslim; she is also firmly against the wearing of the veil.

"Nyamko Sabuni, 37, has caused a storm as Sweden's new integration and equality minister by arguing that all girls should be checked for evidence of female circumcision; arranged marriages should be criminalised; religious schools should receive no state funding; and immigrants should learn Swedish and find a job.

"Supporters of the centre-right government that came to power last month believe that her bold rejection of cultural diversity may make her a force for change across Europe. Her critics are calling her a hardliner and even an Islamophobe."

[Peter]

The islamophobia-watch site seems to shoot itself in the foot a lot, IMO:

The old 'multiculturalism causes terrorism' myth

Commenting on the report "Migrants face new 'Britishness' test" the Telegraph takes the opportunity to repeat the usual right-wing, anti-multiculturalist nonsense about the causes of 7/7:

"The terrorist bombings of London's transport system on 7 July, 2005, and their failed sequel two weeks later, brought a sharp public realisation that Britain's attitude to absorbing immigrants needed to be rethought.

"For innocent civilians to be murdered in their scores in an indiscriminate attack was appalling, but even more shocking was the revelation that these acts had been planned by British-born Muslims: young men who had been raised and educated in this country, but clearly did not feel themselves to be a part of it. In the analysis and debate that followed these traumatic incidents, the scale of the problem became evident.

"Large communities of migrants were living in virtual cultural isolation in Britain. Often making no attempt to learn English, or to accept the national identity that they had adopted, these immigrant groups had been left to their own devices.

"The policy of multi-culturalism, which saw itself as tolerant and benign, had in effect encouraged them to remain tied to their old national or ethnic loyalties, rather than to participate in mainstream British life. The consequence of this failure to assimilate was a pernicious alienation that bred underachievement and a sense of grievance."

I fail to see how this is meant to make us feel any less phobic about muslims, or any more supportive of multiculturalism.

[Litigious]

Nyamko Sabuni.

People like her are problematical to the politically correct. It's typical that it has to be a person of foreign origin who actually speaks out about this. This is just so typically Sweden...

The ice cream that she eats on this pic is called Nogger in Sweden and the company that makes it was accused for racism, since the ice cream is dark brown and Nogger sounds like "nigger"...

[thepeaguy]

It's just a fucking ice-cream...

Talk about sensitive.

[Litigious]

It's just a fucking ice-cream...

Yes, in a normal country, not in Sweden though...

[Scrapheap]

The ice cream that she eats on this pic is called Nogger in Sweden and the company that makes it was accused for racism, since the ice cream is dark brown and Nogger sounds like "nigger"...

Just like the flap over here when a judge described a black plaintiff as "Niggardly"  

[thepeaguy]

It's just a fucking ice-cream...

Yes, in a normal country, not in Sweden though...

Pfft. In our town, we had to change the name of some newly built shopping centre to appease the black community, since it was derived from some slave trade industry back in the old days of my hometown, which used to be a bustling port for pirates, sailors and the like.

[McGiver]

looks like this discussion has taken a turn in favor of the pro islamiphobics

[ozymandias]

I don't think I posted this here, but, my sentiments are not anti-muslim.  Yet the thing that strikes me in the US and in other countries is the silence of Moderate muslims speaking out against the extremism of their Islamic bretheren.  Christians do criticize each other frequently and there are vocal divisions between Liberal, moderate and conservative christians.  If there are moderate muslims speaking out, they are few and far between!

Exactly. Even if the absolute majority of muslims themselves do no harm, they're kind of silent followers to the nut cases. The few moderate muslims who actually speak out risk their lives, though.

These are excellent points which reflect my own personal experience.

The inbred rednecks I grew up with in the Nebraska acted the same way that Islamic terrirists do. A small handfull of bullies terrorised those on the margins of society to create fear and produce order. The majority of people were decent people who did nothing ,and accepted, even rewarded the behavior of the bullies. This was the natural order of the world as they understood it and perfectly normal.

The Muslim terrorists work off the same mentality.

Agreed!  But I am not Islamiphobic, just pro common sense!  I feel the same way about the battle between Ultra-conservative Jews and moderate, liberal Jews.

Today I heard the ultimate definition that defines this whole argument, to paraphrase:  "You cannot have peace in a religious war, but, you can have peace in a political war."  In religion you have no grey areas to compromise or moderate, in politics you do.  Think about it!

Peace

[odeon]

First of all, the islamophobia-watch site's whole purpose is to document what happens. If you cannot see why the quoted article (http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/display/ShowJournal?moduleId=103277&categoryId=17533) is supposed to illustrate, you need to read more. One place to start is on that site, another is to do a quick Google search on islamophobia.

As for the vast majority of peaceful Muslims that see how their kin and their friends are treated throughout Europe, can you blame them for wanting to hide any more than you could blame the Jews silently hiding in Germany and elsewhere in Europe, Russia, and lots of other places, including Sweden, during the twenties and the thirties? It's just so easy for you to speak of how cowardly they are for not speaking up, when you are not the ones threatened, isn't it?

But tell me, if you had lived in Germany during the late twenties and early thirties, not as Jews but as Aryan, as Germans, blond and proud, would you have raised your voices? Would you have protested, or would you just silently have agreed that surely, there must be some truth in what they say, and what they get is not in any way worse than what they had in store for us?

But there are so many people, Muslims and non-Muslims alike, that are not silent. They are screaming out about this, yet you choose not to listen. Have any of you bothered to read the links showing another side of Islam, have you any idea what the word Islam means?

I'm not saying that they are all good and peaceful. Not all are, but neither are all Christians or indeed all Jews, Hindus, or anyone else. In Peter's pictures there were surely exactly the kind of nut cases we all should fear because some of them seem to confuse terrorism with the word of their god, and act on that.

But to hell with balanced views, eh? It's not a group of people any of you can relate to, most of them are not from the old world or the brave new one, they're just foreigners thinking and reacting differently from how you would. Now, can you think of any OTHER kind of people that would think and react differently from your average Joe? Hmmm... a tough one.

Anyway, here's just a quick sample of all those silent, peaceful Muslims and non-Muslims alike, keeping their mouths shut:

Muslim voices against extremism and terrorism

Muslims against terrorism

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks - a long list of voices condemning the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Are muslims hated? Lots of voices, muslims and otherwise.

Wikipedia (is your friend) Here's a decent view of islamophobia. Have a look at the links, too.

Islam Online There's a lot you can find out about Islam, and here are some views; pay special attention to the FAQ and "Ask the Scholar".

Oh, and Litigious, I noticed how you've dodged practically everything I sent your way. Pwned you, didn't I?

[Litigious]

Oh, and Litigious, I noticed how you've dodged practically everything I sent your way. Pwned you, didn't I?

No, I can answer, if you want me to. Denmark, Norway and Sweden are so similar, that an "extrapolation" from Denmark and Norway to Sweden hardly is a great false. Since Swedish politicians and media are so dishonest, compared with their colleagues in Denmark and Norway, an extrapolation is in fact almost a must. It's not what would be considered science to do so, but when was politics ever science?

That I'm an aspie and part of a vulnerable minority doesn't mean that I haven't the right to have an opinion on other minorities, when I think they're wrong. Pim Fortuyn was gay and attacked islam for being intolerant to gay people. Gay people are a vulnerable minority as much as aspies. In fact, both aspies and gays are much more vulnerable than muslims, since we have no mighty state officially supporting our interests like the muslims have. There are 22 arab states standing against little Israel for example. Which state is standing behind us fighting narrow-minded NTs? Which state is fighting the homophobes on behalf of gay people?

Fjordman isn't very consistent, no, and he over-generalizes, but he has more sense than the islamic extremist fools, however. And as I said, it is so fucking typically Sweden, that it has to be a black muslim woman that finally stands up against the religious morons.