Hey Americans!

[Jack]

I'm not for nukes. I'm for deterrents. If traffic lights on red near the borders are enough to stop the Russians, I'm happy to go with that instead.

It's not good enough. The pigs will be needed.

[Jack]

it's not something I'd label as "nice". It's a military alliance, FFS.

Said the objective is nice. The objective of the UN and NATO is supposed to be world nuclear disarmament, world peace, nice dreamy stuff like that. What constitutes an outside attack if everyone is aligned? Though as said before, nice, but probably wont ever happen, unless there's a true world government some day.

The security council is wholly without teeth, a charade of sorts. Getting with the program is basically getting with what the US wants, or Russia, or China.

No need to forget about the other powerful Security Council nuclear pigs. The UN makes all major decisions of war for it's membership, and it's a little annoying when Europeans neglect to acknowledge the UK's influence as a world super power.

[Semicolon]

it's not something I'd label as "nice". It's a military alliance, FFS.

Said the objective is nice. The objective of the UN and NATO is supposed to be world nuclear disarmament, world peace, nice dreamy stuff like that. What constitutes an outside attack if everyone is aligned? Though as said before, nice, but probably wont ever happen, unless there's a true world government some day.

The security council is wholly without teeth, a charade of sorts. Getting with the program is basically getting with what the US wants, or Russia, or China.

No need to forget about the other powerful Security Council nuclear pigs. The UN makes all major decisions of war for it's membership, and it's a little annoying when Europeans neglect to acknowledge the UK's influence as a world super power.

France has a permanent seat, too.

[Jack]

France has a permanent seat, too.

True, but it will be a long time before France has to play the role of the bad guy; maybe they'll get that chance when it's the UK's turn to play the villan. That would make more sense. Unlike zeg, don't think this will happen in my life time, maybe my children's.

[ZEGH8578]

France has a permanent seat, too.

True, but it will be a long time before France has to play the role of the bad guy; maybe they'll get that chance when it's the UK's turn to play the villan. That would make more sense. Unlike zeg, don't think this will happen in my life time, maybe my children's.

France is allready flirting with the "rogue" role. They are in fact leading in the.. more legitimate neo-fascist movement in Europa, as in, they're among the most eager ones to legally vote racists and fascists into their gvt. Just recently some French politician talked about throwing a political opponent "into the ovens" (the opponent was Jewish )

This may seem trivial, but imagine if this was only 10 years ago, before we had gotten quickly used to bigotry like this exploding up everywhere

[El]

Only the superpowers are allowed nuclear arms

There IS some kind of way to look at this that is neither tautological nor simple an issue of those in power finding an excuse to maintain their power, right?

[Semicolon]

Only the superpowers are allowed nuclear arms

There IS some kind of way to look at this that is neither tautological nor simple an issue of those in power finding an excuse to maintain their power, right?

The superpowers have a lot to lose if nuclear weapons are used.

[El]

Only the superpowers are allowed nuclear arms

There IS some kind of way to look at this that is neither tautological nor simple an issue of those in power finding an excuse to maintain their power, right?

The superpowers have a lot to lose if nuclear weapons are used.

And non-superpowers don't?

[Jack]

France has a permanent seat, too.

True, but it will be a long time before France has to play the role of the bad guy; maybe they'll get that chance when it's the UK's turn to play the villan. That would make more sense. Unlike zeg, don't think this will happen in my life time, maybe my children's.

France is allready flirting with the "rogue" role. They are in fact leading in the.. more legitimate neo-fascist movement in Europa, as in, they're among the most eager ones to legally vote racists and fascists into their gvt. Just recently some French politician talked about throwing a political opponent "into the ovens" (the opponent was Jewish )

This may seem trivial, but imagine if this was only 10 years ago, before we had gotten quickly used to bigotry like this exploding up everywhere

That's very interesting about France.

Only the superpowers are allowed nuclear arms

There IS some kind of way to look at this that is neither tautological nor simple an issue of those in power finding an excuse to maintain their power, right?

Believe it's neither rhetoric nor simple when nuclear arms are being discussed, but it's also hard to argue against that. These are real global agreements and decisions outside of the scope of the general public so for me as a member of the general public, yes, maybe simple rhetoric about ideas out of my own scope. Personally wish the UN were more open about disclosing meeting transcripts, rather than the occasional formal press release. Someone will always be in power. The nuclear arms treaty is important and unless all countries join NATO and openly account for their uranium enrichment, then the nuclear powers will never be able to disarm. The Security Council terms of the nuclear arms treaty are terms of agreement in trust as protectors against the wild cards that remain, and only to strike in retaliation to nuclear attack.

The superpowers have a lot to lose if nuclear weapons are used.

And non-superpowers don't?

The Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty is an interesting topic. Everyone has a lot to loose from the use of nuclear weapons. It's possible it's too idealistic to imagine a time when the security council can be dismantled, but semicolon is probably referring to world trust, and the things that go along with that, economic trade and global financial security are also a big loss when trust is lost.

[Jack]

France has a permanent seat, too.

True, but it will be a long time before France has to play the role of the bad guy; maybe they'll get that chance when it's the UK's turn to play the villan. That would make more sense. Unlike zeg, don't think this will happen in my life time, maybe my children's.

France is allready flirting with the "rogue" role. They are in fact leading in the.. more legitimate neo-fascist movement in Europa, as in, they're among the most eager ones to legally vote racists and fascists into their gvt. Just recently some French politician talked about throwing a political opponent "into the ovens" (the opponent was Jewish )

This may seem trivial, but imagine if this was only 10 years ago, before we had gotten quickly used to bigotry like this exploding up everywhere

Let's forget about France for a moment. All of the super powers, and respectively their allies have a financial and political stake in what's been occurring in the middle east over the past few decades. Personally don't see any way around the inevitable of Europe assimilating and absorbing the middle east. In a way that process has already begun, by assimilating a portion of its general population. That's why the UK can't be the bad guy right now, they must suddenly be the arms open welcoming types to a flooding of immigration even though they've never been in any way so welcoming before, causing a culture of people to in essence be very quickly accepting the political rule of other nations. Though due to proximity, the UK will one day need to assume the role of the power they are, and are to be, with a certain higher level of governing power over the middle east. You like to think about future maps, zeg. Jack has a very interesting big picture perspective of what's really going on over there, and interested to know what you think about that.

[ZEGH8578]

Let's forget about France for a moment. All of the super powers, and respectively their allies have a financial and political stake in what's been occurring in the middle east over the past few decades. Personally don't see any way around the inevitable of Europe assimilating and absorbing the middle east. In a way that process has already begun, by assimilating a portion of its general population. That's why the UK can't be the bad guy right now, they must suddenly be the arms open welcoming types to a flooding of immigration even though they've never been in any way so welcoming before, causing a culture of people to in essence be very quickly accepting the political rule of other nations. Though due to proximity, the UK will one day need to assume the role of the power they are, and are to be, with a certain higher level of governing power over the middle east. You like to think about future maps, zeg. Jack has a very interesting big picture perspective of what's really going on over there, and interested to know what you think about that.

You make good points, and to be completely honest, I deliberately try to avoid the most-likely scenarios, because... they make me uncomfortable
They are reminders that huge wars will not stay clear of any region for more than 1-2 generations, and that all ethnicities, including nice white people, are just as doomed to be showered in horror when they least expect it. Every country, region, at peace, at the time, think peace is the norm - just as we think now. People in Iraq laughed and eyerolled, when confronted with the prospect of an American invasion, and that even after having had a war with America - people are quick to regard everything but right-now as almost fantasy.

I do believe that the first nuclear attack since WW2 will happen in the Middle East. Israel is an extension of the west, in the middle east, a colony that remains, and that is few by the west to be impenetrable. Were it your average independent country, it would have been destroyed allready back in 1947, since no minor country could possibly withstand the all out attack from every one of its neighbors.

So, as you imply, it is evident that the west prefers to have a firm foot still within the Middle East, but I prefer not to speculate too detailedly what will happen next. It is true tho, what you say, that "good guy" roles are only temporary, and obviously, these roles must appear convincing untill then. America is a huge example of just that, juggling a bloated "good guy"-role, with almost continous warfare, and a practical world-domination agenda, ala Mordor.

[Jack]

Thanks, zeg; that was a great response.

I do believe that the first nuclear attack since WW2 will happen in the Middle East.

Happen to believe the same is very possible, only slightly different. It wont happen in the Middle East, it will come from there, and believe it will be an attack on a European nation. Maybe that's why France is being allowed to be so openly politically racially motivated. The thing is, much like the US 911 attack, it will be questionable as to who really did what, and at the same time also an excellent excuse to the general public to accept the retaliation which ensues. Absolutely believe the powers within the UN are working toward a common goal. If the gradual approach that's been maintained thus far doesn't prove productive, the world will then need a good reason to be swift and final about it, and that will come in the form of a nuclear attack from the Middle East, and the US and Europe will be buddies again. Thanks for spinning out with me, on a little global conspiracy. Uncomfortable stuff, indeed. Thinking I'll stop now.

[ZEGH8578]

Uncomfortable stuff, indeed. Thinking I'll stop now.

Indeed, and precisely because it rattles our comfortable illusion that you get what you deserve, in the sense that - if only we behave nicely, and bother noone, noone will bother us. Not so. Stuff is planned, and powers plan and scheme more than most normal people like to think - and conspiracy nuts overdo with aliens and reptiles. Many countries have had their fate sealed.

Sometimes I wonder if the USA is even planned to be unravelled, at some point, that this will not come as a surprise, to those in on it. Just today I wondered if the whole "republican vs democrat" is deliberate, in order to fuel a civil war, while giving the impression that it was a random, gradually happening thing, and not at all planned.

If I can think of it, they can, and if someone benefits from thinking of such things, they do - more than me!
Speculation left and right here, but just examples of what human society is capable of - if we look at history. More than capable of!
We know Stalin ignored warnings Germany would attack. Why on earth would he ignore such a warning? "Cuz he wuz stupid" NO he wasn't!
We know Bush admin ignored warnings about a "massive scale attack". Why on earth would he ignore that?? He is indeed a doofus, but not THAT retarded!

Certain things we know!
But yes, no need to drag out, and +1 since you prefer a neutral karma

[Jack]

Sometimes I wonder if the USA is even planned to be unravelled,

People in the US contemplate that too, at least in my house they do.

If I can think of it, they can...

But yes, no need to drag out...

Sometimes theory of mind can reach a level of brilliance, it can be easily defined in terms of the absurd when discussed too deeply. Thanks.

[Pyraxis]

Yeah, I've been hearing about how the USA is going to unravel just like Rome did, among the circle of people I know, since oh 2000 or so. With the state of the USA education and healthcare systems, it seems to be already happening.

I'll flee to Canada and live in an igloo.  Nobody's going to waste a nuke on Nunavut.