Hey Americans!

[Semicolon]

BTW, Zegh, while you may want to take what you call a pragmatic view and accept a "peaceful incorporation of Finland into Russia", I doubt the rest of the world would, and that includes Finland. There would be nothing peaceful about it. The same, I suspect, is true for the Baltics. Any such action would trigger WW3.

I meant that as a very cold and blunt way of saying "Rather Finland than all of Scandinavia/Europe", in no way was I saying that I would be fine with Russia incorporating Finland, and by "peaceful" I refered to the Russian "version of it", the same way Crimea was peaceful (as in no traditional warfare flaring up, due to intense intimidation).

It's like saying, I'd rather my neighbors be mugged, tied up, and killed by insane robbers - than me. But it doesn't mean I'll accept, be happy, or wish for it happening to my neighbors, I'm not a psychopath

I actually agree with you about nukes. When countries are under pressure, any means should be taken to alleviate the pressure, without causing more damage.

I recall hearing about some German who tried a similar strategy in Europe in the 1930's. It didn't end well for Europe. Why would this "peaceful incorporation" end better than that one?

[ZEGH8578]

BTW, Zegh, while you may want to take what you call a pragmatic view and accept a "peaceful incorporation of Finland into Russia", I doubt the rest of the world would, and that includes Finland. There would be nothing peaceful about it. The same, I suspect, is true for the Baltics. Any such action would trigger WW3.

I meant that as a very cold and blunt way of saying "Rather Finland than all of Scandinavia/Europe", in no way was I saying that I would be fine with Russia incorporating Finland, and by "peaceful" I refered to the Russian "version of it", the same way Crimea was peaceful (as in no traditional warfare flaring up, due to intense intimidation).

It's like saying, I'd rather my neighbors be mugged, tied up, and killed by insane robbers - than me. But it doesn't mean I'll accept, be happy, or wish for it happening to my neighbors, I'm not a psychopath

I actually agree with you about nukes. When countries are under pressure, any means should be taken to alleviate the pressure, without causing more damage.

I recall hearing about some German who tried a similar strategy in Europe in the 1930's. It didn't end well for Europe. Why wouldn't this "peaceful incorporation" end up like that one did?

Wow
I am The Bad Guy here

You guys better never watch "saving private ryan" or youll come out thinking Spielberg is a nazi "You saw it yourself! There were nazis in the movie!"

I SAID "PEACEFUL INCORPORATION" IMITATING THE WAY RUSSIANS REFER TO IT, AS IN NOT DECLARING WAR AND NOT BOMBING THE COUNTRY INTO SUBMISSION. YOU KNOW
LIKE CRIMEA
OR IF YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT ww2 AS IF I DONT KNOW ABOUT IT
LIKE AUSTRIA, SUDETENLAND, MEMEL AND EVEN SAARLAND, ALL OF THEM INCORPORATED PEACEFULLY

YOU KNOW, IF YOU USE THE WORDS OF OTHERS, TO ILLUSTRATE THEM, IF YOU SAY "WHITE FOLKS BACK IN THE DAY TALKED ABOUT NIGGERS" IT DOESNT MAKE YOU THE RACIST.
DO YOU NEED A MORE THOROUGH EXPLANATION, JUST LET ME KNOW!

[ZEGH8578]

I have a suspicion this will be misunderstood, so I'll elaborate further:

Saarland, Memel, Austria and Sudetenland WERE NOT invaded in a hostile, violent manner. There were threats about it. Like with Crimea. Like with Finland. But they were incorporated into Germany _PRIOR_ to the big war breaking out. If you're gonna be a smartass, know your goddamn mother-raping facts. thanks.

[ZEGH8578]

I have a suspicion there will be more smartassness, knowing aspies, and knowing Semicolon, so I will elaborate further:

Stop comparing everything to WW2, history does not "repeat itself", its just that wars are similar, and people prefer an easy narrative, so they say "oh gee, history repeated itself! look! the spaniards discovered the americas all over again, hitler is reborn, and it went from 2013 to 1922 and shit, it's like magic!"

So, again
I would prefer Finlands peaceful incorporation in to Russia
TO
WAR in Finland
and
WAR in Norway

[Semicolon]

BTW, Zegh, while you may want to take what you call a pragmatic view and accept a "peaceful incorporation of Finland into Russia", I doubt the rest of the world would, and that includes Finland. There would be nothing peaceful about it. The same, I suspect, is true for the Baltics. Any such action would trigger WW3.

I meant that as a very cold and blunt way of saying "Rather Finland than all of Scandinavia/Europe", in no way was I saying that I would be fine with Russia incorporating Finland, and by "peaceful" I refered to the Russian "version of it", the same way Crimea was peaceful (as in no traditional warfare flaring up, due to intense intimidation).

It's like saying, I'd rather my neighbors be mugged, tied up, and killed by insane robbers - than me. But it doesn't mean I'll accept, be happy, or wish for it happening to my neighbors, I'm not a psychopath

I actually agree with you about nukes. When countries are under pressure, any means should be taken to alleviate the pressure, without causing more damage.

I recall hearing about some German who tried a similar strategy in Europe in the 1930's. It didn't end well for Europe. Why wouldn't this "peaceful incorporation" end up like that one did?

Wow
I am The Bad Guy here

You guys better never watch "saving private ryan" or youll come out thinking Spielberg is a nazi "You saw it yourself! There were nazis in the movie!"

I SAID "PEACEFUL INCORPORATION" IMITATING THE WAY RUSSIANS REFER TO IT, AS IN NOT DECLARING WAR AND NOT BOMBING THE COUNTRY INTO SUBMISSION. YOU KNOW
LIKE CRIMEA
OR IF YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT ww2 AS IF I DONT KNOW ABOUT IT
LIKE AUSTRIA, SUDETENLAND, MEMEL AND EVEN SAARLAND, ALL OF THEM INCORPORATED PEACEFULLY

YOU KNOW, IF YOU USE THE WORDS OF OTHERS, TO ILLUSTRATE THEM, IF YOU SAY "WHITE FOLKS BACK IN THE DAY TALKED ABOUT NIGGERS" IT DOESNT MAKE YOU THE RACIST.
DO YOU NEED A MORE THOROUGH EXPLANATION, JUST LET ME KNOW!

You're the one who would want Finland to surrender without a fight.

I have a suspicion this will be misunderstood, so I'll elaborate further:

Saarland, Memel, Austria and Sudetenland WERE NOT invaded in a hostile, violent manner. There were threats about it. Like with Crimea. Like with Finland. But they were incorporated into Germany _PRIOR_ to the big war breaking out. If you're gonna be a smartass, know your goddamn mother-raping facts. thanks.

Exactly. And when no one stood up to Germany, they ended up taking more and more until the response to the annexation of Poland was outright war across Europe.

I have a suspicion there will be more smartassness, knowing aspies, and knowing Semicolon, so I will elaborate further:

Stop comparing everything to WW2, history does not "repeat itself", its just that wars are similar, and people prefer an easy narrative, so they say "oh gee, history repeated itself! look! the spaniards discovered the americas all over again, hitler is reborn, and it went from 2013 to 1922 and shit, it's like magic!"

So, again
I would prefer Finlands peaceful incorporation in to Russia
TO
WAR in Finland
and
WAR in Norway

Given the narrative that you've drawn, it does look like history repeating itself. But you still haven't answered the question. Where would Russia stop? After taking over Crimea and Finland without a fight, would Russia decide to play nice? Or would it continue its expansion, as no one would be stopping it?

[ZEGH8578]

1. Fuck you, I don't "want" anything. I PREFER _another_ country to go down, _as peacefully as possible_ than ME DYING. Is that tremendously difficult to comprehend? "Yes >:O" Then you are a lost cause. Go join the US-Army, brave-man.

2. Yes, "History Repeats Itself!" then tell me this, moron: Why wasn't WW2 EXACTLY like the Roman Conquests? "Hehehe, silly you! That particular argument is SILLY! In THAT particular case, history doesn't repeat itself, lololol!"

3. History doesn't repeat itself, dickwad. SOME EVENTS ARE SIMILAR TO OTHER EVENTS. But simpletons like you prefer the easy version, I get it.

4. Where would Russia stop? Hold on a moment, let me consult my Oracle. Brb.

[Semicolon]

1. Fuck you, I don't "want" anything. I PREFER _another_ country to go down, _as peacefully as possible_ than ME DYING. Is that tremendously difficult to comprehend? "Yes >:O" Then you are a lost cause. Go join the US-Army, brave-man.

2. Yes, "History Repeats Itself!" then tell me this, moron: Why wasn't WW2 EXACTLY like the Roman Conquests? "Hehehe, silly you! That particular argument is SILLY! In THAT particular case, history doesn't repeat itself, lololol!"

3. History doesn't repeat itself, dickwad. SOME EVENTS ARE SIMILAR TO OTHER EVENTS. But simpletons like you prefer the easy version, I get it.

4. Where would Russia stop? Hold on a moment, let me consult my Oracle. Brb.

Why would Russia stop taking over other countries, if no one opposes them?

[ZEGH8578]

The question is, when did I say Russia would stop?
Why are you imagining that I said Russia would stop?
Why would I be that dumb, to imagine Russia would stop?
On what basis do you reckon I am that dumb?

Stop making this more polemical than it is, just to boost yourself. Now, if you wanna ask me something I might have an answer for, then go ahead. I love normal debate. This thinly-veiled dick-waving will only make me more and more uncooperative.

[ZEGH8578]

Sigh, tea-spoon time:

I _HOPE_ Russia won't do a goddamn thing.
If if DOES, I HOPE it stops at a peaceful action against a country, that hurts nobody.
I HOPE they stop there.

As for what I "know" or think I "know", I've no fucking clue. But I'm not gonna sit here and theorize about the destriction of Scandinavia, cus, you know, I live here. It's not something I'm gonna be guessing about for fun "lol, maybe my whole family is dead by 15 years lol, WW2 achieved a whole lot in just 4!"

So, there. Does that answer your questions? Please say yes!

[Semicolon]

The question is, when did I say Russia would stop?
Why are you imagining that I said Russia would stop?
Why would I be that dumb, to imagine Russia would stop?
On what basis do you reckon I am that dumb?

Stop making this more polemical than it is, just to boost yourself. Now, if you wanna ask me something I might have an answer for, then go ahead. I love normal debate. This thinly-veiled dick-waving will only make me more and more uncooperative.

If Russia wouldn't stop, then you'll eventually find them on your doorstep. If you insist on being pragmatic, then with Finland unconquered, you'll have a barrier between Norway and Russia. A Russia with Finland is more threatening to Norway than a Russia without Finland.

Sigh, tea-spoon time:

I _HOPE_ Russia won't do a goddamn thing.
If if DOES, I HOPE it stops at a peaceful action against a country, that hurts nobody.
I HOPE they stop there.

As for what I "know" or think I "know", I've no fucking clue. But I'm not gonna sit here and theorize about the destriction of Scandinavia, cus, you know, I live here. It's not something I'm gonna be guessing about for fun "lol, maybe my whole family is dead by 15 years lol, WW2 achieved a whole lot in just 4!"

So, there. Does that answer your questions? Please say yes!

I hope that, were this to come up, NATO and the EU would do more about it than they've done about Crimea. As far as questions go, It's your scenario.

[ZEGH8578]

I know that.
But I wasn't talking about it.
I found the prospect kind of obvious and uncomfortable to spell out.

That is why
I
hope
that if Russia DOES decide on Finland, they'll stop there. And hurt as few finns as possible.

Why do I have to explain that I want as few people as possible hurt? Is this really something I need to explain?

Russian officials are also on record saying "Norway has seen too much peace lately", so yes, I know.

edit: goddamn the quote-pyramid got messed up in this one -.-
---
NATO and EU have no official responsability in Ukraine, so, regardless of peoples emotions, there was nothing they could do, except illegal actions.
EU _does_ have a self-defence force, that should theoretically cover Finland as well, but I cannot imagine it being much more than symbolic, leaving NATO as the only real defensive force to be reckoned with. Finland is not a member, and that is where it gets icky, since Russia is explicitly warning Finland against it, and we're back to where the debate started.

I don't like to guess about what might or might not happen in global hostility. For fun, sometimes, but for serious? No. "War is like a door opening into a blackened room" -Hitler, you never know, and he sure learned that the hard way.
Russia could very well end up controlling Western Eurasia, and a new dawn would enter. Maybe it wouldn't even be so bad. I mean, America has homeless people, whores, beggars, all kinds of depressing shit. Maybe Russia would be beaten into smithereens, dissolving into tons of dirt-poor little shit republics. Who knows? Maybe all out nuclear holocaust, maybe none of those, maybe something new that we haven't seen before. I don't want to speculate about it.

[El]

A union of the two countries would create the most laid-back citizens ever.

"Why are you so relaxed?"
"I'm Finnish-Russian."

[Semicolon]

I know that.
But I wasn't talking about it.
I found the prospect kind of obvious and uncomfortable to spell out.

That is why
I
hope
that if Russia DOES decide on Finland, they'll stop there. And hurt as few finns as possible.

Why do I have to explain that I want as few people as possible hurt? Is this really something I need to explain?

Russian officials are also on record saying "Norway has seen too much peace lately", so yes, I know.

edit: goddamn the quote-pyramid got messed up in this one -.-
---
NATO and EU have no official responsability in Ukraine, so, regardless of peoples emotions, there was nothing they could do, except illegal actions.
EU _does_ have a self-defence force, that should theoretically cover Finland as well, but I cannot imagine it being much more than symbolic, leaving NATO as the only real defensive force to be reckoned with. Finland is not a member, and that is where it gets icky, since Russia is explicitly warning Finland against it, and we're back to where the debate started.

I don't like to guess about what might or might not happen in global hostility. For fun, sometimes, but for serious? No. "War is like a door opening into a blackened room" -Hitler, you never know, and he sure learned that the hard way.
Russia could very well end up controlling Western Eurasia, and a new dawn would enter. Maybe it wouldn't even be so bad. I mean, America has homeless people, whores, beggars, all kinds of depressing shit. Maybe Russia would be beaten into smithereens, dissolving into tons of dirt-poor little shit republics. Who knows? Maybe all out nuclear holocaust, maybe none of those, maybe something new that we haven't seen before. I don't want to speculate about it.

To me, hurting people isn't the bottom line. Freedom is. Live free or die. I would hope that no one would be hurt, but there are worse things than death.

As far as war goes, it's one thing for Russia to annex part of a former Soviet republic. It's another to openly attack a member of the EU.

[Jack]

I have a suspicion there will be more smartassness...

Everyone hates the pigs until they need them.

[Semicolon]

I have a suspicion there will be more smartassness...

Everyone hates the pigs until they need them.