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Author Topic: OKCupid asks users to boycott Firefox because of CEO's gay rights stance  (Read 1854 times)

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Offline odeon

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I always find it kinda ironic that people who say they strive for tolerance and acceptance  are so intolerant and unaccepting  of the people who oppose them.

People often confuse freedom of speech with populism.

We are talking about a person who privately donated money to a cause he happens to believe in. Mozilla as an organisation should have done the decent thing and defended their employers' right to keep whatever opinions they like instead of worrying about OKCupid sympathisers abandoning them for another browser.

Instead they invented a whole new set of standards (well, an old one, actually) and showed that they have the backbone of an amoeba.
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Offline odeon

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Yup. I wouldn't use that site again.

Which is the answer. The guy is free to believe however he wants, and do as he pleases with his own property. I think he is a gigantic faggot for being so homophobic, but I wouldn't think of using force to try and get my own way with HIS company. Its his, and it belongs to HIM.

I think these social justice fucks need to get over themselves.

Well, it's not really an answer, is it, because it doesn't solve the underlying problem.
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Offline El

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And he resigned.

Why is it that freedom of speech only seems to be acceptable if you agree with what's being said?
He still had (and has) freedom of speech.  He wasn't facing legal action for doing something politically unpopular (let's pretend that counts as "speech" in the first place); he was facing public backlash.  Firefox could have kept him on, but they didn't want to piss off their customers.  I fail to see how anyone's freedom of speech was affected.   :dunno:

How is it *not* affected? The message is clear: don't even think about supporting a politically incorrect opinion if you want to keep your job. That kind of pressure is very, very effective because on the surface of it all, freedom of speech is preserved, the weak protected and the rain forests kept intact.

Freedom of speech is only actually useful if the unpopular views are tolerated, too.
What you do in your personal life can affect your professional life if it's outrageous enough and/or if you're in a position to be under scrutiny.  I doubt every single employee at firefox is- or ever will be- held to the same standard as the head of the company.  If you're a public figure, yeah, you're under the microscope.  Again, capitalism:  If you're the head of a giant company, you have strong potential to be a public figure.  That is what it is.  I strongly doubt he'd have trouble finding a new job working with a small startup- his career is already beyond what most of us could ever dream of achieving.  I mean, the dude's also free to tattoo "God hates fags" on his forehead if he wants to.  There's consequences to that, as well.

I think we're operating under different definitions of 'freedom of speech.'

So the irony here is that one freedom of speech kills another. Also, in your world, the larger (or rather, more public) the company, the less freedom of speech, actually allowing everyone to hold their opinions without fear of losing their jobs.

Sorry, I disagree, and disagree strongly.

His opinions, in this case, had nothing to do with his ability to lead the company. Nothing. IMHO, this is not freedom of speech, it's not even defending a set of predefined values, it's just being fearful of how the market might react. It's populism.

My choice of browser is not affected by the opinions of an individual at Mozilla. It is, however, affected by how Mozilla as a company reacts to inconvenient opinions held by its employers.
I thought about this a bit more- I had to try and consider what I'd think of it if he'd expressed an opinion I'd agreed with rather than was strongly opposed to, which was a little difficult to come up with (especially with it being what I see as an actual action directly against human rights, not merely an opinion- it's tough to think of an opposite correlate that would actually piss off the public), but I do see your point.  Still feel like raging against it is windmill-tilting, but I do see it.  (We're talking about a country where only a decade or so ago we were ready to impeach a president for lying about a consensual blowjob.  We pick weird battles here.)

Additional question, though/devil's advocate:  Whether or not it's related to the ability to do one's job, is there a point where shit from one's private life becomes unignorable?  Would, for example, you still have the same issue if he'd been drummed out because it turned out he'd donated a grand to NAMBLA? 
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Offline odeon

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Additional question, though/devil's advocate:  Whether or not it's related to the ability to do one's job, is there a point where shit from one's private life becomes unignorable?  Would, for example, you still have the same issue if he'd been drummed out because it turned out he'd donated a grand to NAMBLA?

Provided the organisation is legal, yes. I'd find the man to be completely reprehensible but I'd still defend his right to an opinion without fear of losing his job.

It would be a very difficult thing to defend, though. Can you imagine the outcry from the public against anyone who dared pointing out that what he does with his money on his free time is irrelevant?

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Offline El

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Additional question, though/devil's advocate:  Whether or not it's related to the ability to do one's job, is there a point where shit from one's private life becomes unignorable?  Would, for example, you still have the same issue if he'd been drummed out because it turned out he'd donated a grand to NAMBLA?

Provided the organisation is legal, yes. I'd find the man to be completely reprehensible but I'd still defend his right to an opinion without fear of losing his job.

It would be a very difficult thing to defend, though. Can you imagine the outcry from the public against anyone who dared pointing out that what he does with his money on his free time is irrelevant?
Is whether or not it's legal the line you'd draw?  Are there illegal activities you do or don't think should affect his position?  Or a line?  Technically, for example, expanding the example above, if the man had also previously been convicted and had to register as a sex offender, but had served his time and debt to society otherwise, he'd still be able to do his job.  Discrimination against people who flunk CORIs is rampant and is in many ways and instances morally reprehensible.

Also curious- in your opinion, is there a counterpoint to be made re: public opinion also being people exercising their freedom of speech, albeit en masse?  Is this also something of an issue of free speech vs. free speech?

As a side note, I find the whole concept of money being "free speech" really kind of disturbing, at least in terms of this:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/04/03/campaign-finance-donations-free-speech-democracy-column/7273303/  Like, jesus fucking christ.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 07:47:03 AM by PMS Elle »
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Offline Parts

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OkCupid's co-founder and CEO Sam Yagan once donated to an anti-gay candidate. (Yagan is also CEO of Match.com.) Specifically, Yagan donated $500 to Rep. Chris Cannon (R-Utah) in 2004, reports Uncrunched. During his time as congressman from 1997 to 2009, Cannon voted for a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, against a ban on sexual-orientation based job discrimination, and for prohibition of gay adoptions.
 
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Opps :hahaha:
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Offline Jack

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Offline ProfessorFarnsworth

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OkCupid's co-founder and CEO Sam Yagan once donated to an anti-gay candidate. (Yagan is also CEO of Match.com.) Specifically, Yagan donated $500 to Rep. Chris Cannon (R-Utah) in 2004, reports Uncrunched. During his time as congressman from 1997 to 2009, Cannon voted for a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, against a ban on sexual-orientation based job discrimination, and for prohibition of gay adoptions.
 
Link

Opps :hahaha:

LOL. Fucking hypocrites. :laugh:
Existence actually has two broad meanings despite its apparent meaningless. The constant reconciliation of all its parts, and the conservation of any closed system as a whole.

Morality can be extrapolated from these meanings to make these two commandments of godless morality: 1). Be in harmony with one another and 2). Care for the environment.

Offline odeon

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Additional question, though/devil's advocate:  Whether or not it's related to the ability to do one's job, is there a point where shit from one's private life becomes unignorable?  Would, for example, you still have the same issue if he'd been drummed out because it turned out he'd donated a grand to NAMBLA?

Provided the organisation is legal, yes. I'd find the man to be completely reprehensible but I'd still defend his right to an opinion without fear of losing his job.

It would be a very difficult thing to defend, though. Can you imagine the outcry from the public against anyone who dared pointing out that what he does with his money on his free time is irrelevant?
Is whether or not it's legal the line you'd draw?  Are there illegal activities you do or don't think should affect his position?  Or a line?  Technically, for example, expanding the example above, if the man had also previously been convicted and had to register as a sex offender, but had served his time and debt to society otherwise, he'd still be able to do his job.  Discrimination against people who flunk CORIs is rampant and is in many ways and instances morally reprehensible.

Oooh, a far more difficult question than I first thought. My gut reaction was to say yes, that's where I draw the line re Mozilla. But thinking about it, I remain doubtful. In principle, it's easier for me to understand why a company might want to sack somebody who financially supported an illegal but unrelated cause, but I'm not sure I agree with such a standpoint anyway. There are plenty of silly laws.

I guess my stance is that if the donation in itself was legal, then fine; it should not result in a dismissal.

A previous conviction might conceivably hurt an employer, depending on the nature of the crime and whether or not the conviction was known when the person was first hired, but that's not really a free speech issue, it's a discrimination issue.

Quote
Also curious- in your opinion, is there a counterpoint to be made re: public opinion also being people exercising their freedom of speech, albeit en masse?  Is this also something of an issue of free speech vs. free speech?

Public opinion as discussed here is a tool and not about free speech per se, IMHO, it's about exerting pressure to enforce a standpoint. Quite a dirty one at that, too. It's not anything as noble as the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few or anything like that; it's populism at its dirtiest.

I'm sure there is a point to be made, though. One that is slightly related is any democracy where a vote 51/49 results in the opinions of almost half of the population being ignored. Technically, you could say that the system works but the result in many countries is a polarised system without compromises under the pretence of democracy.

Quote
As a side note, I find the whole concept of money being "free speech" really kind of disturbing, at least in terms of this:  http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/04/03/campaign-finance-donations-free-speech-democracy-column/7273303/  Like, jesus fucking christ.

It is disturbing, yes. Not sure what to think about it, tbh.
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Offline odeon

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OkCupid's co-founder and CEO Sam Yagan once donated to an anti-gay candidate. (Yagan is also CEO of Match.com.) Specifically, Yagan donated $500 to Rep. Chris Cannon (R-Utah) in 2004, reports Uncrunched. During his time as congressman from 1997 to 2009, Cannon voted for a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, against a ban on sexual-orientation based job discrimination, and for prohibition of gay adoptions.
 
Link

Opps :hahaha:

:laugh:

He should step down, of course. :P
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Offline 'andersom'

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I will not use OkCupid from now on, and in the past.  :hyke:
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!

Offline odeon

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That's an important stance to make. I fully support your right to do so.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline 'andersom'

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That's an important stance to make. I fully support your right to do so.

Will you follow my lead, and not use it in the past?
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!

Offline odeon

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That's an important stance to make. I fully support your right to do so.

Will you follow my lead, and not use it in the past?

I will. :arrr:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline 'andersom'

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That's an important stance to make. I fully support your right to do so.

Will you follow my lead, and not use it in the past?

I will. :arrr:

Good, one cannot be too thorough, with things like this.
I can do upside down chocolate moo things!