Will There Be A War?

[odeon]

Tensions mount as Putin seeks to expand his empire while claiming he's only out to protect Russians. Your thoughts?

[odeon]

My immediate reaction when hearing that "Crimea used to be part of Russia until 1954, you know" was that Russia should give back Karelia to Finland.

[bodie]

Will there be a war?   

This is what happens when land, or cities, in this case 'Crimea' are tossed around as gifts.   Crimea was given to Ukraine by Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev, who was himself half-Ukrainian.  It may have been a gift, but like many other gifts, the giver still feels some sense of ownership.  Fingers still in pies, so to speak.

Putin is an 'action' man.  I think his action in this case was not very well thought out.  People are comparing him to 'Hitler' and that is just nonsense.  I don't think Putin is planning to invade anywhere else.  He is a dangerous man, as I said already 'an action man' but he is no Hitler. ( He is a danger to himself if anything - in danger of collapsing and suffocating under the weight of his own ego maybe   )

I think this new, interim government in Ukraine either need to go or need to drastically rethink it's position regarding Russia.  One of its first actions was to repeal a 2012 law recognising Russian as an official regional language.   -  not a very clever move!  Why provoke Russia like this?

Sure, Putin has overreacted.  Apparently, during the 'disturbances' many of the Russian population of Ukraine have been chanting "Putin come".  Putin says he is protecting 'human rights' of his people in Ukraine,  which is interesting, cus, you know Russia is 'big' on human rights

I don't think war is inevitable.  I think diplomacy could win.  Send for the world's top negotiators  - alas,   Nelson Mandela can't help in this one!

[Kapkao]

my thoughts are that Putin is trying to reclaim Russia's old glory under the Soviet Union.

[Queen Victoria]

The Crimean War, Part 2

[odeon]

my thoughts are that Putin is trying to reclaim Russia's old glory under the Soviet Union.

That's what I think, too. He'd certainly want to go back.

I'm not sure if he is stupid enough for a war. I hope he isn't.

[DirtDawg]

my thoughts are that Putin is trying to reclaim Russia's old glory under the Soviet Union.

That's what I think, too. He'd certainly want to go back.

I'm not sure if he is stupid enough for a war. I hope he isn't.

I also hope he isn't!!

My country would have to become involved. Two war fronts is enough for anyone. No one should have to fight on three fronts.

As selfish as that sounds, I feel for those people who have spent two decades (or a century!) or more trying to find freedom from outside rule!

[ZEGH8578]

My immediate reaction when hearing that "Crimea used to be part of Russia until 1954, you know" was that Russia should give back Karelia to Finland.

Yeah, me too. These kinds of politics, well, they cannot be honest, if you think about it. How many good, honest reasons can you think of, for one country to roll into another, and start uprooting the place?
So it's obvious any justification is gonna be a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.

For Russia to make a move on the EU or Nato would be incredibly unwise, so that would be an enormous surprise. For geopolitical analysts, their invasion of Crimea is not that huge a surprise, it is a spot waiting to flare up, like Abkhazia and Ossetia was.
Another possible flashpoint can be, for example Belarus, who has "promised" a unification with Russia. If Belarus were to back out of this, and seek closer ties to Europe, one could see similar events unfolding there, but Crimea stands out because it wasn't always a part of the Ukrainian SSR (or ever), Crimea has a long history of being it's own Soviet Republic. This sets some precedents, people remember, and for example, Caucasus used to enjoy its own autonomy as a separate Soviet Republic for a short while. They have never forgotten this. As soon as the Soviet Union broke down, the Caucasus republics, most notably Chechnya, wanted to join all the other new nations into independence. They even achieved independence during Yeltsins useless rule, and for a while the "Ichkerian Republic of Chechnya" existed as a de facto independent nation, untill - - - Putin, rolled his army into Grozny, and litterally levelled the city to gravel, in one of the most extensive city destructions in post WW2 times.

If you ask a Russian, Crimea "Is Russian" and Ukrainian ownership is nothing but a lucky fluke for the Ukrainians. If you ask a Ukrainian, theyll tell you Crimea is Ukrainian, and ask a Crimean, they'll refer to the independence Crimea has often had in the past - and tell you Crimea is a country of it's own (It has been autonomous under Ukraine since the fall of Soviet)

[RageBeoulve]

Short answer, yes. The U.S. is basically a war machine and it has been too long since it has manufactured/started one. The entire "leader of the free world" economy is BASED on war. Thems the breaks.

 

[ZEGH8578]

Short answer, yes. The U.S. is basically a war machine and it has been too long since it has manufactured/started one. The entire "leader of the free world" economy is BASED on war. Thems the breaks.

 

Nobody needs a huge clash-of-the-titans kind of war. Otherwise USA, Russia, China, India, heck even Brazil and Mexico would be smoldering holes by now.

The wars you mean are the easy containable wars. Wars you can guarantee to win. Like USA vs Grenada. USA vs Panama. Pathetic shit like that. Russia vs Georgia.

Every now and then they surprise themselves, with the Taliban or Viet Cong "Come on you guys, ur supposed to lose D:"

[RageBeoulve]

That would make sense to someone who was able to think, Zegh. Come here, and try to explain this to the U.S. executive branch. Bonus points if nobody says the word "potato" while you're talking.

[ZEGH8578]

That would make sense to someone who was able to think, Zegh. Come here, and try to explain this to the U.S. executive branch. Bonus points if nobody says the word "potato" while you're talking.

But 'talk is cheap', America hasn't attacked any big foe yet. Mexico sits right next to you, why don't you just invade it? Cus - you can't afford to!
What politicians talk about, is mostly them blabbering to sound tough and bad. I realize there is a good deal of delusions of grandeur when they talk about steamrolling Iran - but consider this:
Iran being able to defend itself with nukes is just talk - they don't have any nukes.
A coordinated NATO effort could quite possibly have defeated the Iranian military, USA wouldn't have to do it alone. USA would have to do Mexico alone, cus there is no anti-Mexican rethoric around the world
And that's an example of a real limit, America is simply not powerful or wealthy enough to launch itself into a war with a real, considerable power, without any backup.
Nor is Russia.
Ukraine's stunted reaction to being invaded, I'm sure, did not come as a surprise to Russia. Had Russia suspected that Ukraine would go insta-batshit, raining mortars down on the invaders, there is no guarantee that Russia woulda tried to take them on like this.
I think WW2 is often a bit "too fresh in our minds", and we see it as likely that one power will suddenly try to ravage every one of its neighbors - but one must remember that Hitler based his victory prognoses in superstition and misinformation, bullshit like "we cannot lose, because our enemies aren't even proper humans"

[odeon]

Short answer, yes. The U.S. is basically a war machine and it has been too long since it has manufactured/started one. The entire "leader of the free world" economy is BASED on war. Thems the breaks.

 

Except that this one has little to do with the US.

[RageBeoulve]

Short answer, yes. The U.S. is basically a war machine and it has been too long since it has manufactured/started one. The entire "leader of the free world" economy is BASED on war. Thems the breaks.

 

Except that this one has little to do with the US.

Oh, give it a while. The U.S. state will weasel in there somehow, at great cost to everyone involved and with the least risk to the state itself. Watch and see. 

[bodie]

I remembered something about Crimea.   It hosted a very important conference in 1945 which was crucial in bringing about
the end of WWII

Churchill,  Roosevelt and Stalin are pictured above at that very conference.  Just saying....the irony