Amanda Knox, a sickening example of media and cultural bias

[Jack]

Yes, I have watched it on occasion. I wouldn't dream of visiting most of those countries.

In other words, if you find a legal system of a country objectionable, you should not visit it?

Yes.

Not sure I understand why you choose to quote both of my posts, above.

Seemed to be answering your own question. Jack agrees.

It was something I asked Sir Les, really.

Pardon my indifference to that.

[odeon]

So who is the country that tries fairly? Who has the policemen that do not misuse their powers? Which law courts give no account to a person's social position and really are in the truest sense, fair?

I admit to a bit of cynic but if you say Italy is not fair, then at least their incompetence is transparent.

Very few justice systems are completely fair, if any, but I would contest that in the western world at least, Italy's is among the more random. Anything can happen. Anything has, in fact, and while there seems to be a consensus over there that the system doesn't work, there's no real attempt to fix it.

There are lots of things wrong with the Swedish system, for example, but here, the (mis-) handling of the Amanda Knox case would likely have resulted in a mistrial. I believe the same to be true in most Western countries.

Which it should, because while she may be as guilty as sin, guilt is something that needs to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt and it just wasn't. I believe there was a time when a more able court system could have made a convincing case against her, but it didn't happen and now it is what it is.

Now, that is not to say that there isn't bias in our courts--quite the contrary, and I wouldn't dream of arguing against your points re social position--but I'd like to think that they aren't quite as sloppy, quite as random.

And even if they were, so what? Is it OK if enough people do it?

[Al Swearegen]

So who is the country that tries fairly? Who has the policemen that do not misuse their powers? Which law courts give no account to a person's social position and really are in the truest sense, fair?

I admit to a bit of cynic but if you say Italy is not fair, then at least their incompetence is transparent.

Very few justice systems are completely fair, if any, but I would contest that in the western world at least, Italy's is among the more random. Anything can happen. Anything has, in fact, and while there seems to be a consensus over there that the system doesn't work, there's no real attempt to fix it.

There are lots of things wrong with the Swedish system, for example, but here, the (mis-) handling of the Amanda Knox case would likely have resulted in a mistrial. I believe the same to be true in most Western countries.

Which it should, because while she may be as guilty as sin, guilt is something that needs to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt and it just wasn't. I believe there was a time when a more able court system could have made a convincing case against her, but it didn't happen and now it is what it is.

Now, that is not to say that there isn't bias in our courts--quite the contrary, and I wouldn't dream of arguing against your points re social position--but I'd like to think that they aren't quite as sloppy, quite as random.

And even if they were, so what? Is it OK if enough people do it?

OK, I hear what you are saying. So I say, Amanda Knox is an American. An American that happens to be pretty and young and female. Had she have been from Nigeria, and was a middle aged black man, it would never had caused a ripple in international media. Her beauty and youth and being a female made her a minor celebrity (as it did for Shapelle Corby - there are plenty of Aussies and other foreigners in the same jails that we never heard about that simply did not raise any outrage).
That in itself is one point that has been raised.
The other one is the question, who is the most outraged? Americans. What are they outraged about? Their citizen in the grip of a foreign court system that is unfair? Now lets say two words on that - Guantanamo Bay.
I am a cynic in respect to law and the people that protect us. I think that it is corrupt, and discriminatory and a big part of that is cultural and societal mores,
So if I see a court here there or anywhere treat someone better because they are the "right" skin colour, or the "right" socio-economic" group, or "right" whatever else, I am not surprised. Mildly disgusted maybe. I expect it though. I expect a bad result. I believe when a cop approaches and wants information from me, he will be rude, overly personal, insulting and counter-productive. I believe that judges in the Family court will shaft Fathers. I believe that judges will continue to protect the rich and famous and be harsh on the poor and uncouth. I am a cynic.....but not without good reason.

[odeon]

Most people would not have cared if she had been a middle-aged black Nigerian man, no. The media would have looked elsewhere and we wouldn't be discussing the case or its implications now.

But I'm pretty sure that some of us would have, if we'd heard of it.

And again, is it OK if everyone is doing it? Is it OK that the Italians have a failed justice system because of Guantanamo Bay? Is it OK because Amanda Knox is an American and female and good-looking? I say no, it isn't. It's never OK.

[Al Swearegen]

Most people would not have cared if she had been a middle-aged black Nigerian man, no. The media would have looked elsewhere and we wouldn't be discussing the case or its implications now.

But I'm pretty sure that some of us would have, if we'd heard of it.

And again, is it OK if everyone is doing it? Is it OK that the Italians have a failed justice system because of Guantanamo Bay? Is it OK because Amanda Knox is an American and female and good-looking? I say no, it isn't. It's never OK.

Ah I misunderstood your position. If your position is that Italian law system is an abject failure and so is other countries system of law, and this is a terrible state of affairs, then I agree with you.

[odeon]

Pretty much, yes. Some more obviously than others, and some more dangerously than others, but basically, most systems are flawed and we'd all do well to learn from all of them.

[Al Swearegen]

Pretty much, yes. Some more obviously than others, and some more dangerously than others, but basically, most systems are flawed and we'd all do well to learn from all of them.

 

Then we find ourselves agreeing again. I find it difficult to argue with people with similar viewpoints.
Maybe I should start talking Feminism in the Western World or Disciplining Children. 
No, I joke. I like that there is a lot of commonality. I am glad too of the differences be they few inbetween.

[odeon]

Italians would do better with a couple of feminists running the show.

['andersom']

Italians would do better with a couple of feminists running the show.

la Cicciolina 

[Al Swearegen]

Italians would do better with a couple of feminists running the show.

Indeed, the reintroduction of the guillotine for men and crimes by men as it is exaggerated by their privilege under the construct of Patriarchy. IF they introduced tht there, I would CHOOSE not to visit

[odeon]

Italians would do better with a couple of feminists running the show.

Indeed, the reintroduction of the guillotine for men and crimes by men as it is exaggerated by their privilege under the construct of Patriarchy. IF they introduced tht there, I would CHOOSE not to visit