Author Topic: Few things shock me but this did  (Read 614 times)

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Offline bodie

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2014, 08:08:54 AM »
Apparently after reading the paper today, the Mother was saying that he loved the boy as much as she did but had psychological problems and it sounded like he simply lost the plot.
It sounded very unfortunate. A psychologically unstable man not obviously well enough medicated and with a cricket bat in his hand the moment he snaps.

That is very sad but does explain a little.  I was thinking could be a bonding issue with a tiny baby or small child, but was puzzled to think about a man who is father for 11 years.  11 years must equal a lot of love.   Sounds like a moment of madness.
blah blah blah

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2014, 08:21:54 AM »
@Zegh

I looked for 'ambushed' as am interested to see but could only find one about US Marine's.  Do you have a link?



//

As for snapping, I've seen it happen. My brother has that mentality. He will get a rush when he attacks what he loves. It is a huge problem. He has beaten up a lot of his friends, severed those friendships, he has verbally abused our mother on many occasions - and he picks the most hurtful sadistic things to say, and will usually just keep saying things purely to feel that rush of attacking what he loves. He is aware of this himself, but is unable to control his impulse once he gets angry.

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2014, 08:25:17 AM »
Apparently not long after the incident, the mother walked out and told the news crews that she would give her side of the story rather than the newspapers revert to misinformation and sensationalism to sell a story and for 26 minutes between sobs and tears set them all right. She told of a loving Father and husband with psychological problems and how tragic it was and that there was no one to blame and how devastated she was.

Fucked up shit
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2014, 10:47:58 AM »
It is a pity he wasn't shot before he killed the poor little bugger. Preferably by way of a benelli automatic pump action loaded with double ought buckshot cartridges and emptied into him after being shoved up his arse. A lead enema as it were.

Offline bodie

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2014, 05:46:18 PM »
@Zegh

I looked for 'ambushed' as am interested to see but could only find one about US Marine's.  Do you have a link?



//

As for snapping, I've seen it happen. My brother has that mentality. He will get a rush when he attacks what he loves. It is a huge problem. He has beaten up a lot of his friends, severed those friendships, he has verbally abused our mother on many occasions - and he picks the most hurtful sadistic things to say, and will usually just keep saying things purely to feel that rush of attacking what he loves. He is aware of this himself, but is unable to control his impulse once he gets angry.


OMG I have just seen it all the way through.  Began to watch it yesterday but soon realised I needed to pick a time when the urchin was asleep and I could absorb everything.

Yeah I see what you mean,  that Major came in and shook everything up when he ordered them to go on that patrol.  I notice he never spoke on the documentary.  He made them engage the enemy.

I really liked 'Bjorn Rose' who wrote the letter - just for his honesty.  The other Sargent (Panzer?) seemed a bit ... I dunno, reserved maybe.  Felt like he could be one of the ones who don't get PTSD for a long, long time,  then  'booom'

The first thing that shocked me was how young they looked.  It was very interesting Zegh,  cheers   :thumbup:
blah blah blah

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2014, 06:47:45 PM »
@Zegh

I looked for 'ambushed' as am interested to see but could only find one about US Marine's.  Do you have a link?



//

As for snapping, I've seen it happen. My brother has that mentality. He will get a rush when he attacks what he loves. It is a huge problem. He has beaten up a lot of his friends, severed those friendships, he has verbally abused our mother on many occasions - and he picks the most hurtful sadistic things to say, and will usually just keep saying things purely to feel that rush of attacking what he loves. He is aware of this himself, but is unable to control his impulse once he gets angry.


OMG I have just seen it all the way through.  Began to watch it yesterday but soon realised I needed to pick a time when the urchin was asleep and I could absorb everything.

Yeah I see what you mean,  that Major came in and shook everything up when he ordered them to go on that patrol.  I notice he never spoke on the documentary.  He made them engage the enemy.

I really liked 'Bjorn Rose' who wrote the letter - just for his honesty.  The other Sargent (Panzer?) seemed a bit ... I dunno, reserved maybe.  Felt like he could be one of the ones who don't get PTSD for a long, long time,  then  'booom'

The first thing that shocked me was how young they looked.  It was very interesting Zegh,  cheers   :thumbup:

It is very interesting that docu. And my first thought, regarding those soldiers, similar to yours was how young they are - but also - does nobody properly warn them? In the recruitment offices etc, I fully realize that it is bad advertisement to stop an eager recruit, and go "Hold on a moment - you realize that you might DIE yes?" - but they are owed to be told that, loud and clear.
You can see for yourself how incredibly unprepared they are, mentally. When shooting begins, they make rock-n-roll signs, they take it as "oh, finally some action" - no - it's not "some action", it's "mortal danger!!!!" and boy, do they come to realize that once it is too late. Once one of them is white as a sheet, one of their friends! DEAD!

I am always very conflicted about how the military forces of our ideally peaceful nations are treated. We have no war here. We have no business warring in other countries. Soldiers are here to defend us, and make sure nobody comes to attack us. All the propaganda bullshit aside, those troops are there - in Afghanistan - for politicians little games, not for freedom or people or justice or anything like that. If you ask those boys, THEY are there for the pay and the action! The illusion of "doing something good" is just a bit of icing on the cake for them.

Gah... I can't think about it too much, I get so irritated... :D

Offline bodie

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2014, 06:27:01 PM »
The thing i disliked about the army was the class thing.  I thought it was obvious during that clip, too.   Those higher up the food chain make the decisions that affect the boots on the ground who seem to be just disposable at times.  It annoys me too.
blah blah blah

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2014, 10:21:56 PM »
The thing i disliked about the army was the class thing.  I thought it was obvious during that clip, too.   Those higher up the food chain make the decisions that affect the boots on the ground who seem to be just disposable at times.  It annoys me too.

Oh, but that is ancient and integral to the nature of war. Why else would we be operating with such high numbers all the time? They are meant to be expendable, or we would be sending
1 king to duel 1 king
or
a handful of field marshals in a pile-up
or even a little band of generals battling it out, as a symbolic act.

Todays armies are still a "symbolic act", they are roughly 0,5% or so of a normal population, so it is not "truly" two nations fighting each others - but symbolic representatives of those armies fighting. And the "class pyramid" has so many levels and steps, that the lowest denominator - the private - usually count in the thousands. Even a small country like Norway has 25 000 troops ready at any time, plus the capacity to mobilize another 60 000.
It's a small number compared to big countries, but imagine shaking 85 000 hands :D The number is quite high, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, and it is that high so that it would be able to sustain hundreds and hundreds of killed troops, thousands even - theoretically even tens of thousands!

Warfare is very unrefined :D
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 10:24:14 PM by ZEGH8578 »

Offline bodie

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2014, 03:24:37 AM »
There was once a time here when a King would lead his country into war. :viking:

Also,  English people were responsible for arming themselves.

Quote
In 1252 the 'Assize of Arms' ensured that all Englishmen were ordered, by law, that every man between the age of 15 to 60 years old should equip themselves with a bow and arrows. The Plantagenet King Edward III took this further and decreed the Archery Law in 1363 which commanded the obligatory practice of archery on Sundays and holidays! The Archery Law "forbade, on pain of death, all sport that took up time better spent on war training especially archery practise". King Henry I later proclaimed that an archer would be absolved of murder, if he killed a man during archery practise!

I discovered this while researching my longbow.  Can you imagine a time where all the men in the land practised archery,  and also the murders that would have taken place   "It was an accident sir, I was practising my archery for King and country".

blah blah blah

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2014, 06:49:35 AM »
There was once a time here when a King would lead his country into war. :viking:

Also,  English people were responsible for arming themselves.

Quote
In 1252 the 'Assize of Arms' ensured that all Englishmen were ordered, by law, that every man between the age of 15 to 60 years old should equip themselves with a bow and arrows. The Plantagenet King Edward III took this further and decreed the Archery Law in 1363 which commanded the obligatory practice of archery on Sundays and holidays! The Archery Law "forbade, on pain of death, all sport that took up time better spent on war training especially archery practise". King Henry I later proclaimed that an archer would be absolved of murder, if he killed a man during archery practise!

I discovered this while researching my longbow.  Can you imagine a time where all the men in the land practised archery,  and also the murders that would have taken place   "It was an accident sir, I was practising my archery for King and country".

You're asking a Norwegian if he can imagine a past where civilians were heavily armed, and sometimes performed a manslaughter or two? Yes ;D Yes, I can image! :D
But yeah, notice that it took a single accidental murder to outlaw that practice, and leave longbow-shooting to the professionals ;D I find that comforting, that despite these popular ideas of savage and barbaric pasts, it wasn't as wild and out of control as people imagine. It reminds me of when Norwegians jokingly refer to vikings who would "settle scores" by chopping each others heads of and such "those were the days lol", but no, if they actually read the rest of those stories, they develop quite similarily - usually the perpetrator has to flee into exile, often in far away colonies, like Iceland or Greenland, or the British Isles :D

Offline bodie

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2014, 08:21:11 AM »
I love learning history about these things.  I have never studied the Vikings,  they were painted as savages when I was at school.  I must get round to doing some proper reading on them.

The 'Mayans' are another group i want to learn about.
blah blah blah

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2014, 08:46:35 AM »
I love learning history about these things.  I have never studied the Vikings,  they were painted as savages when I was at school.  I must get round to doing some proper reading on them.

The 'Mayans' are another group i want to learn about.

I also love to "un-label" these groups - that helps you understand them better, because it makes them human.
"Vikings" = Scandinavians
"Mayans" = Guatemalans (with the end-of-the-world scare, I always tried to remind people that "mayans" arent some mythical, ancient, extinct culture. 60% of Guatemala are Maya, also a lot of southern Mexico :D In the same vein, about half of Peru is considered Quecha and or Aymara = "Inca", with over a million speakers of the old language)

the word "Viking" evolved, and changed meaning even by the time of the viking-age. Exactly what and when and how is obscure, but if we sortof cut it down to the raw basics, it is most likely that it started like
1. (Probably in the bronze age) bandits sailed down the fjords, the INLETS - "vik" (same as -wick-names in english), a viking was simply a notorious band of raiders coming down the fjords. Why fjords? Because Norway is full of mountains. In the bronze age communities/kingdoms were small, numerous and scattered. Imagine a criminal fleeing to Mexico, to avoid American juristiction. The long winding fjords allowed bandits to hit-and-run very effectively, for then to vanish in the many inlets. So the word "viking" most likely started out as a synonym for raider or bandit, just hill-people attacking fellow Norwegians, looting and raping as bandits always do.
2. With that use allready in vocabulary, by the Iron age the world would allready signify a raider, wether he be a bandit criminal, or a brave warrior raiding foreign settlements. By the viking-age Scandinavians use the word as a noun, to describe a brave soldier who has participated in foreign raids, and brought home loot and gold, often as a compliment "He is a great viking!"
3. Eventually, the word begins to signify more and more foreign adventures, and becomes a verb, with vikings themselves refering to "Let's go viking!" "He has travelled off viking in the south."

Black death strikes Norway, a "dark era" begins, and as the nation is rebuilt, gunpowder and new trends are imported. Old notions are pushed away as primitive, and the word falls out of use completely, untill national-romantic renaissance, especially in Norway and especially after centuries of being Sweden/Denmark's bitch, we begin to long for something to be proud of. Icelandic sagas are given attention, Snorris writings, and the tales of violence and horror is "better than nothing" because at least we are badasses and not bitches in those tales. Horns on helmets comes from a Swedish painter from the same period, responding to the new romantic idea of the ancestor barbarians, and from there on it will take us another century to form a much more realistic and nuanced picture of "vikings".

Today most Norwegians will almost compensate, and argue to you that vikings were "not as bad as everyone says" and such, which I consider common sense, but maybe not everyone does.
Normal viking-age Scandinavians were farmers, as you can imagine, but the pre-christian ones did worship warfare and death by war, and so participation in foreign raids was not too uncommon, and in certain periods youth were mass-drafted for adventures abroad, many went willingly, others were dragged along against their will, sortof something that was compulsory.
Due to the fragmented nature of populations, there were also wars between kingdoms, but that is the same for most places in those days, such as todays England - back then consisting of various rivalling kingdoms, warring for territory, on and off.

All of this stretches over centuries though, and over many independent kingdoms at the time, so there is no ONE right answer.
"Berserker" is an even more obscure and complicated term to decyphre :D
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 08:51:31 AM by ZEGH8578 »

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2014, 02:07:29 PM »
I love learning history about these things.  I have never studied the Vikings,  they were painted as savages when I was at school.  I must get round to doing some proper reading on them.

The 'Mayans' are another group i want to learn about.

I also love to "un-label" these groups - that helps you understand them better, because it makes them human.
"Vikings" = Scandinavians
"Mayans" = Guatemalans (with the end-of-the-world scare, I always tried to remind people that "mayans" arent some mythical, ancient, extinct culture. 60% of Guatemala are Maya, also a lot of southern Mexico :D In the same vein, about half of Peru is considered Quecha and or Aymara = "Inca", with over a million speakers of the old language)

the word "Viking" evolved, and changed meaning even by the time of the viking-age. Exactly what and when and how is obscure, but if we sortof cut it down to the raw basics, it is most likely that it started like
1. (Probably in the bronze age) bandits sailed down the fjords, the INLETS - "vik" (same as -wick-names in english), a viking was simply a notorious band of raiders coming down the fjords. Why fjords? Because Norway is full of mountains. In the bronze age communities/kingdoms were small, numerous and scattered. Imagine a criminal fleeing to Mexico, to avoid American juristiction. The long winding fjords allowed bandits to hit-and-run very effectively, for then to vanish in the many inlets. So the word "viking" most likely started out as a synonym for raider or bandit, just hill-people attacking fellow Norwegians, looting and raping as bandits always do.
2. With that use allready in vocabulary, by the Iron age the world would allready signify a raider, wether he be a bandit criminal, or a brave warrior raiding foreign settlements. By the viking-age Scandinavians use the word as a noun, to describe a brave soldier who has participated in foreign raids, and brought home loot and gold, often as a compliment "He is a great viking!"
3. Eventually, the word begins to signify more and more foreign adventures, and becomes a verb, with vikings themselves refering to "Let's go viking!" "He has travelled off viking in the south."

Black death strikes Norway, a "dark era" begins, and as the nation is rebuilt, gunpowder and new trends are imported. Old notions are pushed away as primitive, and the word falls out of use completely, untill national-romantic renaissance, especially in Norway and especially after centuries of being Sweden/Denmark's bitch, we begin to long for something to be proud of. Icelandic sagas are given attention, Snorris writings, and the tales of violence and horror is "better than nothing" because at least we are badasses and not bitches in those tales. Horns on helmets comes from a Swedish painter from the same period, responding to the new romantic idea of the ancestor barbarians, and from there on it will take us another century to form a much more realistic and nuanced picture of "vikings".

Today most Norwegians will almost compensate, and argue to you that vikings were "not as bad as everyone says" and such, which I consider common sense, but maybe not everyone does.
Normal viking-age Scandinavians were farmers, as you can imagine, but the pre-christian ones did worship warfare and death by war, and so participation in foreign raids was not too uncommon, and in certain periods youth were mass-drafted for adventures abroad, many went willingly, others were dragged along against their will, sortof something that was compulsory.
Due to the fragmented nature of populations, there were also wars between kingdoms, but that is the same for most places in those days, such as todays England - back then consisting of various rivalling kingdoms, warring for territory, on and off.

All of this stretches over centuries though, and over many independent kingdoms at the time, so there is no ONE right answer.
"Berserker" is an even more obscure and complicated term to decyphre :D

Awesome post Zegh, history + etymology = epic win

Offline bodie

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2014, 04:15:56 PM »
I love learning history about these things.  I have never studied the Vikings,  they were painted as savages when I was at school.  I must get round to doing some proper reading on them.

The 'Mayans' are another group i want to learn about.

I also love to "un-label" these groups - that helps you understand them better, because it makes them human.
"Vikings" = Scandinavians
"Mayans" = Guatemalans (with the end-of-the-world scare, I always tried to remind people that "mayans" arent some mythical, ancient, extinct culture. 60% of Guatemala are Maya, also a lot of southern Mexico :D In the same vein, about half of Peru is considered Quecha and or Aymara = "Inca", with over a million speakers of the old language)

the word "Viking" evolved, and changed meaning even by the time of the viking-age. Exactly what and when and how is obscure, but if we sortof cut it down to the raw basics, it is most likely that it started like
1. (Probably in the bronze age) bandits sailed down the fjords, the INLETS - "vik" (same as -wick-names in english), a viking was simply a notorious band of raiders coming down the fjords. Why fjords? Because Norway is full of mountains. In the bronze age communities/kingdoms were small, numerous and scattered. Imagine a criminal fleeing to Mexico, to avoid American juristiction. The long winding fjords allowed bandits to hit-and-run very effectively, for then to vanish in the many inlets. So the word "viking" most likely started out as a synonym for raider or bandit, just hill-people attacking fellow Norwegians, looting and raping as bandits always do.
2. With that use allready in vocabulary, by the Iron age the world would allready signify a raider, wether he be a bandit criminal, or a brave warrior raiding foreign settlements. By the viking-age Scandinavians use the word as a noun, to describe a brave soldier who has participated in foreign raids, and brought home loot and gold, often as a compliment "He is a great viking!"
3. Eventually, the word begins to signify more and more foreign adventures, and becomes a verb, with vikings themselves refering to "Let's go viking!" "He has travelled off viking in the south."

Black death strikes Norway, a "dark era" begins, and as the nation is rebuilt, gunpowder and new trends are imported. Old notions are pushed away as primitive, and the word falls out of use completely, untill national-romantic renaissance, especially in Norway and especially after centuries of being Sweden/Denmark's bitch, we begin to long for something to be proud of. Icelandic sagas are given attention, Snorris writings, and the tales of violence and horror is "better than nothing" because at least we are badasses and not bitches in those tales. Horns on helmets comes from a Swedish painter from the same period, responding to the new romantic idea of the ancestor barbarians, and from there on it will take us another century to form a much more realistic and nuanced picture of "vikings".

Today most Norwegians will almost compensate, and argue to you that vikings were "not as bad as everyone says" and such, which I consider common sense, but maybe not everyone does.
Normal viking-age Scandinavians were farmers, as you can imagine, but the pre-christian ones did worship warfare and death by war, and so participation in foreign raids was not too uncommon, and in certain periods youth were mass-drafted for adventures abroad, many went willingly, others were dragged along against their will, sortof something that was compulsory.
Due to the fragmented nature of populations, there were also wars between kingdoms, but that is the same for most places in those days, such as todays England - back then consisting of various rivalling kingdoms, warring for territory, on and off.

All of this stretches over centuries though, and over many independent kingdoms at the time, so there is no ONE right answer.
"Berserker" is an even more obscure and complicated term to decyphre :D

Awesome post Zegh, history + etymology = epic win

Yep.  Zegh writes some awesome stuff.  Zegh should be a history teacher  8)
blah blah blah

Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2014, 07:45:29 PM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/10635054/British-child-beaten-to-death-with-cricket-bat-by-father-in-Australia.html

How the fuck can something like this happen?

Nobody should have to go through the upsetting ordeal of stopping such a thing. That's the state's job.  :laugh:
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"