Author Topic: Few things shock me but this did  (Read 626 times)

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Offline El-Presidente

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Offline Icequeen

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2014, 02:40:53 PM »
Couple horrendous incidents over here lately too. I hate even reading the news anymore.

They're are some really sick fucks out there.

Offline bodie

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2014, 03:23:32 PM »
Yeah I don't 'get' it either.    I wonder why the other people there did not try to overpower the man?  Maybe they did, and it all happened too quickly.   His mum said she thought he was leaning over the boy, trying to help him as she thought he had been hit by a ball.

If my kid goes down on the deck, ever, I am not watching from a distance.    Poor kid.
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Offline "couldbecousin"

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2014, 03:42:37 PM »
  The article states that the police believe the father wanted to be shot dead after killing his son,
  i.e. the attack on his son was his way of committing  "suicide by cop,"  if I understand correctly.
  I wish these murderer/suicides would be content with killing  just themselves, if anyone,
  instead of bringing a bunch of innocent bystanders along with them.  :grrr:
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Offline Icequeen

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2014, 04:21:38 PM »
Yeah I don't 'get' it either.    I wonder why the other people there did not try to overpower the man?  Maybe they did, and it all happened too quickly.   His mum said she thought he was leaning over the boy, trying to help him as she thought he had been hit by a ball.

If my kid goes down on the deck, ever, I am not watching from a distance.    Poor kid.

Seriously. I would have been on his back like a Tasmanian devil.

The mother thought he only posed a threat to "her", so obviously she had dealt with some shit in the past and was scared of him. :P

Offline bodie

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 04:35:04 PM »
Makes you wonder how long it took, in real time.  He was only 11 years old so probably just a few seconds, or a few blows.

He was armed with a bat and a knife so why didn't police overpower him instead of shooting him dead?  He got what he wanted.  Death.   This is not what he deserved. 

I would like to have seen him face a trial and court and a long miserable life in prison.
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Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 04:48:44 PM »
Makes you wonder how long it took, in real time.  He was only 11 years old so probably just a few seconds, or a few blows.

Wishful thinking, sorry. Society is full of myths of "instant death", hell even a rifle blast to the face may take you a couple of long, agonizing minutes to succump completely from.

The luck, if any, is if you pass out, and fall unconcious. But the sad, horrible truth is that a human body can take an unbelievable ammount of punishment.

I actually saw a docu the other day about british soldiers in combat, and a mother who could NOT accept the story of how her son died - told by the soldiers _on the ground_, prefering the phoney bullshit she got from the dpt of defense or whatever it was.
Chronologically - she was informed by the dpt first, they told her "death was instant" (an impossibility, unless you are vaporized), but a standard thing to tell a grieving parent. She doubted them, and wanted to hear it from the boys on the ground. THEY told her that he probably lived for 10-15 minutes.

That is as good as instant. 10-15 minutes from bullet impact, untill last breat, that... is almost as instant as it gets. The guy collapsed _immediately_, and passed out from blood-loss within a minute or two. But had a pulse for about 10-15 minutes.

That's all, 10-15 minutes of pulse, and this traumatized the mother completely, she could not accept it at all.

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 04:55:34 PM »
obviously, I'm being a nitpicker, and there is a good chance the poor kid blacked out from the knock to the head. Hopefully...

Offline bodie

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2014, 02:45:28 AM »
Yes when people die we like to think of death being instant.  If I had to tell a mother that her child was dead I would hope it was a question not asked, for I doubt I could lie.

It's about suffering.  Although I not sure how much of that time would be spent suffering, or maybe just adrenalin soaked bewilderment.

Another mystery is when you hear about people surviving major trauma because they were 'fighters'.  How does that happen?  Surely most would fight for survival.  How does one initiate this fighting will to survive?  :dunno:
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Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2014, 03:47:32 AM »
Reading this, and the comments, I fear the dad did not just want suicide by cop, but also agony for the mother of his son, killing her son at a distance, but very visible for her.

Lots of those family killings/suicides seem to be about hurting the remaining parent.

Last year there was a guy in the Netherlands who killed his kids, hid the bodies, and then killed himself somewhere else. Took days before the mother knew what the fate of her sons was.
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Offline bodie

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2014, 03:58:21 AM »
It is fucked up.   The strength of feeling to hurt an ex to be stronger than the natural feelings of a parent to protect a child.  I don't get it.  :grrr:
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Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2014, 04:02:06 AM »
It is fucked up.   The strength of feeling to hurt an ex to be stronger than the natural feelings of a parent to protect a child.  I don't get it.  :grrr:

Me neither.

Theoretically I can think why a severely depressed person could want to shield ofspring from life, making it a group suicide. But that is theoretical. My gut does not even want me theorising about it.

The need to hurt an ex by taking away what is most dear to both of you makes no sense at all to me. Safety and life of kids should come first.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 05:49:05 AM by hykeaswell »
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Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2014, 07:33:59 AM »
Another mystery is when you hear about people surviving major trauma because they were 'fighters'.  How does that happen?  Surely most would fight for survival.  How does one initiate this fighting will to survive?  :dunno:

This has to do with the few cases where staying concious is crucial to surviving while help is on the way, for example during shock or freezing. Willpower makes the difference between fighting to stay awake and concious, and giving in to the drowsyness and letting yourself fall asleep.

However, this is merely ONE variable, that does not go for ONE kind of situation. One example of this is the winter drunkard in Norway - with a weak will, he might sit down in the snow, and fall asleep there. With a strong will he will remind himself the danger of that, and keep on walking home.

But you are right that this is not something people should apply to everything, it is a minor variable, and will only affect minutes at the time. It obviously also creates a very unfortunate "they shoulda fought better" mentality.

Also, you could check the docu out, youtube for "Ambushed", and sort for longer clips, it should be about an hour at least, and is about British troops in Afghanistan. It gives some remarkable insight on the brutal, unpolished, medieval nature of modern warfare. Western society is notoriously deluded as to how savage modern combat is. (Relax, the docu isn't bloody or gory.) It also gives an insight in the practical ways of warfare. When was last you learned about the actual process of troop movement? Who makes the decision to move a "piece of chess" across the battlefield? The docu doesn't quite elaborate on it, but by paying attention, you get a sense of how cold and crude, and most of all practical and automatic it is.
Specifically the notable chronology of:
A whole platoon of soldiers are stationed right next to a Taliban base. NOTHING happens - for days. The Talibans are in no hurry to die, and the british troops are in ABSOLUUUTELY NO hurry to die - at all! :D So it turns into instant stagnation. Who would have thought? It has nothing to do with brave/not brave, it's completely natural, and to be expected when you station troops somewhere without actual orders. So, the piece is placed, but it won't make contact by itself, it needs a nudge.
Next, the solution is both routine and simple: Place one man in that base, who outranks everyone, who is a bit of a loose-cannon, who wants to see blood spatter, who has no emotional connection with the troops, and just sit back and wait.
Their OWN command, will be very reluctant to dive head first into a Taliban nest. A commander who is eager about violence, and who has no connection with the troops, will have no problem making that decision. It seems these commanders are sortof "placed around", to get things moving. Interesting to see. The docu doesn't spell it out, that's why I describe it to you now, so you can notice in case you watch it :D
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 07:45:43 AM by ZEGH8578 »

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2014, 07:50:48 AM »
Apparently after reading the paper today, the Mother was saying that he loved the boy as much as she did but had psychological problems and it sounded like he simply lost the plot.
It sounded very unfortunate. A psychologically unstable man not obviously well enough medicated and with a cricket bat in his hand the moment he snaps.
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Re: Few things shock me but this did
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2014, 07:59:30 AM »
@Zegh

I looked for 'ambushed' as am interested to see but could only find one about US Marine's.  Do you have a link?
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