Now listen here, feminism...

[odeon]

I can. A quick google search is coming up with a lot of initiatives calling for things like affordable child care, paid parental leave, and equal wages for equal work.

Center for American Progress, Women's Initiative
Massachusetts Women in the Workplace Initiative
Obama Administration fact sheet on women's and family initiatives
National Committee on Pay Equity

And you're completely sure that none of these drag men down, rather than empower women?

If you, for example, fight for equality in research or higher academic positions, more women will probably mean fewer men unless the total number of positions is increased, which is unlikely. Is this dragging men down?

Out out interest are we talking equality of opportunity or equality of outcome because you and I know they are not mutually inclusive nor does necessarily even logically follow.

I am weak in mechanics and trigonometry. You could put me in highly intensive specialised tutoring and I would be none the wiser.

Equal opportunity. Meritocracy. The best person for the job and all that. Double blind if need be.

We have that now though. Woman can be or do what they want AND have the protection under the law against discrimination.
With this mind, do women tend to choose similar jobs to men now? No.
Why not? Because women in general prioritise work/life balance off against higher wages. Where they want to though, they can. My daughter's best friend is goingbto be a carpenter, whilst other female peers have much more gender typical aspirations.
I support whatever my daughter wishes to be.

I was talking about academics, in this case, which is kind of different, around here at least.

OK, then again are you talking about about equal opportunities or equal outcomes. You know they are two very different things and not mutually inclusive (and that the answer is not "Yes")

Yes.

Seriously, I thought I was being clear.

No, unfortunately not. Less academics in a field is NOT necessarily discrimination. It may be choice, simply that.
My little brother was a peer to the older sister of someone who went on to become an international star. If the other high schools in the area did not have that much success in generating actor, then it is not that they are doing anything wrong or that there was favoritism or discrimination.
Pretending to have a gripe about unequal outcome would be silly, in this instance.....as it would in Academics

Not necessarily discrimination, no, but if the numbers are consistently in favour of men in the higher positions, I'd say there's something fishy going on.

[odeon]

What?! Listen to an argument and change your mindset? Never!!! Arguments are merely an example to show everyone else you're right.

That's a load of crap.  Most arguments are about personal growth.  Every argument I can think of was about personal growth.  Show me examples of arguments that were just about being right.

Unfortunately, a lot of people I have met in the Autistic community believe they are special snowflakes, and any type of self improvement is trying to normalize themselves.

And that's why the Autistic community is disliked and associated with lone gunmen instead of with reasonable people- it has its priorities wrong.  They all need to learn to just suck it up and bootstrap themselves to where they need to be, and quit with the "advocacy" bullshit.  They want special treatment and they should be for EQUALITY.  Instead, they are anti-NT- wanting accommodations made that would never be afforded to us NTs, just so they can get jobs they're really just plain less qualified for than we are. 

As an NT myself, I can say that I have never oppressed the Autistic community, and frankly I don't think the oppression is real- we've moved past that.  Look at all the successful Aspies out there!  Clearly, any problems people on the spectrum have are due to lack of grit and effort.  They just need to STFU about how unfair things are and put their noses to the grindstone.

Agreed.

[odeon]

What's this "us"? I don't feel sorry for myself and I don't think most of the people here do.

I feel sorry for you.

[odeon]

I have to say I'm feeling very special today. 

Just today?

Isn't it always today? 

Yesterday was just another day.

[odeon]

You all need to harden the fuck up.

I miss PPK.

[Al Swearegen]

Me too

['andersom']

You all need to harden the fuck up.

I miss PPK.

*Showing my soft and sensitive side*

I miss him too.

[Pyraxis]

And that's why the Autistic community is disliked and associated with lone gunmen instead of with reasonable people- it has its priorities wrong.  They all need to learn to just suck it up and bootstrap themselves to where they need to be, and quit with the "advocacy" bullshit.  They want special treatment and they should be for EQUALITY.  Instead, they are anti-NT- wanting accommodations made that would never be afforded to us NTs, just so they can get jobs they're really just plain less qualified for than we are. 

As an NT myself, I can say that I have never oppressed the Autistic community, and frankly I don't think the oppression is real- we've moved past that.  Look at all the successful Aspies out there!  Clearly, any problems people on the spectrum have are due to lack of grit and effort.  They just need to STFU about how unfair things are and put their noses to the grindstone.

Agreed.

I thought Elle was being sarcastic.

[RageBeoulve]

Quotas are discrimination. 

[Pyraxis]

What's this "us"? I don't feel sorry for myself and I don't think most of the people here do.

I feel sorry for you.

Aww, you're too kind.

[El]

And that's why the Autistic community is disliked and associated with lone gunmen instead of with reasonable people- it has its priorities wrong.  They all need to learn to just suck it up and bootstrap themselves to where they need to be, and quit with the "advocacy" bullshit.  They want special treatment and they should be for EQUALITY.  Instead, they are anti-NT- wanting accommodations made that would never be afforded to us NTs, just so they can get jobs they're really just plain less qualified for than we are. 

As an NT myself, I can say that I have never oppressed the Autistic community, and frankly I don't think the oppression is real- we've moved past that.  Look at all the successful Aspies out there!  Clearly, any problems people on the spectrum have are due to lack of grit and effort.  They just need to STFU about how unfair things are and put their noses to the grindstone.

Agreed.

I thought Elle was being sarcastic.

I thought perhaps odeon was, as well.

[Gopher Gary]

I have to say I'm feeling very special today. 

Just today?

Isn't it always today? 

Yesterday was just another day.

I'm feeling special yesterday? 

[odeon]

And that's why the Autistic community is disliked and associated with lone gunmen instead of with reasonable people- it has its priorities wrong.  They all need to learn to just suck it up and bootstrap themselves to where they need to be, and quit with the "advocacy" bullshit.  They want special treatment and they should be for EQUALITY.  Instead, they are anti-NT- wanting accommodations made that would never be afforded to us NTs, just so they can get jobs they're really just plain less qualified for than we are. 

As an NT myself, I can say that I have never oppressed the Autistic community, and frankly I don't think the oppression is real- we've moved past that.  Look at all the successful Aspies out there!  Clearly, any problems people on the spectrum have are due to lack of grit and effort.  They just need to STFU about how unfair things are and put their noses to the grindstone.

Agreed.

I thought Elle was being sarcastic.

It only occurred to me that she might be after I hit Post. Not that it matters, I still pretty much agree with what she says.

[odeon]

And that's why the Autistic community is disliked and associated with lone gunmen instead of with reasonable people- it has its priorities wrong.  They all need to learn to just suck it up and bootstrap themselves to where they need to be, and quit with the "advocacy" bullshit.  They want special treatment and they should be for EQUALITY.  Instead, they are anti-NT- wanting accommodations made that would never be afforded to us NTs, just so they can get jobs they're really just plain less qualified for than we are. 

As an NT myself, I can say that I have never oppressed the Autistic community, and frankly I don't think the oppression is real- we've moved past that.  Look at all the successful Aspies out there!  Clearly, any problems people on the spectrum have are due to lack of grit and effort.  They just need to STFU about how unfair things are and put their noses to the grindstone.

Agreed.

I thought Elle was being sarcastic.

I thought perhaps odeon was, as well.

Not really. I do think that the advocacy bullshit is just that, bullshit. The same goes with this whole oppression thing.

OTOH, the stuff about any problems we might have being due to lack of grit and effort, erm, not really, but by that time, I had decided I'd simply post "agreed" and be provocative about it all.

My real point was that we do need to harden the fuck up, which I said in another post.

[odeon]

I have to say I'm feeling very special today. 

Just today?

Isn't it always today? 

Yesterday was just another day.

I'm feeling special yesterday? 

That, too.