Now listen here, feminism...

[odeon]

I can. A quick google search is coming up with a lot of initiatives calling for things like affordable child care, paid parental leave, and equal wages for equal work.

Center for American Progress, Women's Initiative
Massachusetts Women in the Workplace Initiative
Obama Administration fact sheet on women's and family initiatives
National Committee on Pay Equity

And you're completely sure that none of these drag men down, rather than empower women?

If you, for example, fight for equality in research or higher academic positions, more women will probably mean fewer men unless the total number of positions is increased, which is unlikely. Is this dragging men down?

Yes. Yes it is.



Tearing the legal system apart just to get more women in there isn't the only thing gone awry either. The positive discrimination in and of itself is not a good idea, and does not empower women.

"Here little girl. *patpatpat* Lets just get you some help trying to get ahead of those bad old men. Its not your fault you need a boost, I mean you're only a woman."

 

So quite a Catch 22, according to you. Change anything and we're dragging men down. Keep it the way it is and the situation remains unchanged and women are effectively kept out.

I'm not talking about quotas, I'm talking about equal opportunities.

That's not how things are being done, and you know it.

I know they aren't, which is why I posted. Glad we finally agree there aren't equal opportunities but surprised it took you so long to acknowledge it.

You know I was referring to quotas rather than equal opportunities. There ARE quotas.

Which would also mean that there aren't equal opportunities. But which academic world are you referring to, since the one I was talking about doesn't?

[odeon]

I have to say I'm feeling very special today. 

Just today?

[Al Swearegen]

I can. A quick google search is coming up with a lot of initiatives calling for things like affordable child care, paid parental leave, and equal wages for equal work.

Center for American Progress, Women's Initiative
Massachusetts Women in the Workplace Initiative
Obama Administration fact sheet on women's and family initiatives
National Committee on Pay Equity

And you're completely sure that none of these drag men down, rather than empower women?

If you, for example, fight for equality in research or higher academic positions, more women will probably mean fewer men unless the total number of positions is increased, which is unlikely. Is this dragging men down?

Out out interest are we talking equality of opportunity or equality of outcome because you and I know they are not mutually inclusive nor does necessarily even logically follow.

I am weak in mechanics and trigonometry. You could put me in highly intensive specialised tutoring and I would be none the wiser.

Equal opportunity. Meritocracy. The best person for the job and all that. Double blind if need be.

We have that now though. Woman can be or do what they want AND have the protection under the law against discrimination.
With this mind, do women tend to choose similar jobs to men now? No.
Why not? Because women in general prioritise work/life balance off against higher wages. Where they want to though, they can. My daughter's best friend is goingbto be a carpenter, whilst other female peers have much more gender typical aspirations.
I support whatever my daughter wishes to be.

I was talking about academics, in this case, which is kind of different, around here at least.

OK, then again are you talking about about equal opportunities or equal outcomes. You know they are two very different things and not mutually inclusive (and that the answer is not "Yes")

Yes.

Seriously, I thought I was being clear.

No, unfortunately not. Less academics in a field is NOT necessarily discrimination. It may be choice, simply that.
My little brother was a peer to the older sister of someone who went on to become an international star. If the other high schools in the area did not have that much success in generating actor, then it is not that they are doing anything wrong or that there was favoritism or discrimination.
Pretending to have a gripe about unequal outcome would be silly, in this instance.....as it would in Academics

[El]

What?! Listen to an argument and change your mindset? Never!!! Arguments are merely an example to show everyone else you're right.

That's a load of crap.  Most arguments are about personal growth.  Every argument I can think of was about personal growth.  Show me examples of arguments that were just about being right.

Unfortunately, a lot of people I have met in the Autistic community believe they are special snowflakes, and any type of self improvement is trying to normalize themselves.

And that's why the Autistic community is disliked and associated with lone gunmen instead of with reasonable people- it has its priorities wrong.  They all need to learn to just suck it up and bootstrap themselves to where they need to be, and quit with the "advocacy" bullshit.  They want special treatment and they should be for EQUALITY.  Instead, they are anti-NT- wanting accommodations made that would never be afforded to us NTs, just so they can get jobs they're really just plain less qualified for than we are. 

As an NT myself, I can say that I have never oppressed the Autistic community, and frankly I don't think the oppression is real- we've moved past that.  Look at all the successful Aspies out there!  Clearly, any problems people on the spectrum have are due to lack of grit and effort.  They just need to STFU about how unfair things are and put their noses to the grindstone.

[Dexter Morgan]

What?! Listen to an argument and change your mindset? Never!!! Arguments are merely an example to show everyone else you're right.

That's a load of crap.  Most arguments are about personal growth.  Every argument I can think of was about personal growth.  Show me examples of arguments that were just about being right.

Unfortunately, a lot of people I have met in the Autistic community believe they are special snowflakes, and any type of self improvement is trying to normalize themselves.

And that's why the Autistic community is disliked and associated with lone gunmen instead of with reasonable people- it has its priorities wrong.  They all need to learn to just suck it up and bootstrap themselves to where they need to be, and quit with the "advocacy" bullshit.  They want special treatment and they should be for EQUALITY.  Instead, they are anti-NT- wanting accommodations made that would never be afforded to us NTs, just so they can get jobs they're really just plain less qualified for than we are. 

As an NT myself, I can say that I have never oppressed the Autistic community, and frankly I don't think the oppression is real- we've moved past that.  Look at all the successful Aspies out there!  Clearly, any problems people on the spectrum have are due to lack of grit and effort.  They just need to STFU about how unfair things are and put their noses to the grindstone.

I know you are being sarcastic, but I do think some initiative would help a lot of us instead of feeling sorry for ourselves all the time.

[Pyraxis]

What's this "us"? I don't feel sorry for myself and I don't think most of the people here do.

[Jack]

Unfortunately, a lot of people I have met in the Autistic community believe they are special snowflakes, and any type of self improvement is trying to normalize themselves.

Nothing wrong with a positive self-esteem.

[Gopher Gary]

I have to say I'm feeling very special today. 

Just today?

Isn't it always today? 

[Gopher Gary]

What's this "us"? I don't feel sorry for myself and I don't think most of the people here do.

Don't listen to him, Pyraxis. You're a special snowflake and perfect just the way you are. 

[Al Swearegen]

What's this "us"? I don't feel sorry for myself and I don't think most of the people here do.

Deviil's Advocate role here (not a role I like playing...I like opinionated) I think that "us" is used as a bit of a collective term. I think that life is hard and that most on I2 probably get that and few, if any, are special snowflakes here. Wander onto some other online site or in some IRL Aspie groupings and ...yeah....pity parties run supreme.
I do not think you are a special snowflake Py, nor do I think you are a nasty piece of work.

[Pyraxis]

I don't have so much experience with IRL aspie groupings. I've heard there are facebook groups, but I am very much not a facebook person.

[Dexter Morgan]

What's this "us"? I don't feel sorry for myself and I don't think most of the people here do.

Deviil's Advocate role here (not a role I like playing...I like opinionated) I think that "us" is used as a bit of a collective term. I think that life is hard and that most on I2 probably get that and few, if any, are special snowflakes here. Wander onto some other online site or in some IRL Aspie groupings and ...yeah....pity parties run supreme.
I do not think you are a special snowflake Py, nor do I think you are a nasty piece of work.

You are correct.  Jack, there is nothing wrong with positive affirmations as long as you do not do it excessively. Doing so clouds your perspective of what weaknesses you need to work on.

[Jack]

Jack, there is nothing wrong with positive affirmations as long as you do not do it excessively. Doing so clouds your perspective of what weaknesses you need to work on.

Jack is esoteric, with chocolate as her lone weakness.

[Gopher Gary]

I do not think you are a special snowflake Py,

She's beautiful and unique. 

['andersom']

Jack, there is nothing wrong with positive affirmations as long as you do not do it excessively. Doing so clouds your perspective of what weaknesses you need to work on.

Jack is esoteric, with chocolate as her lone weakness.

The bovine appreciates your weakness.