Now listen here, feminism...

[RageBeoulve]

On the whole, feminists are angry and toxic.

Is this just your opinion or can you back it up?

There are a lot of feminists, man. What do you really expect me to do here?

Back up your words, or answer this, which you really haven't yet, IMO:

What do you want to accomplish, here?  Do you just want to whine about how the mean feminists have done bad things and have a pity party under the pretext of moral outrage?  To you want to learn something?  Do you want to teach something?  Do you have a goal at all?

You've obviously skimmed all my posts and only read the parts where I was critical of feminism.  I stated very clearly what my position was, otherwise. I'm not even going to address your aggressive comments which have begun to resemble ad-hominem, rather just tell you that I have been very clear about what my goal is.

If you wish to have a discussion, perhaps you could calm down and address me as a friend rather than an enemy. 

weak.

Skimming people's posts and clinging to ideology without considering what they have to say is pretty weak, IMO. I can tell by the questions you asked that you did not read them.

That aside, if you do read them you will probably realize that I am not as opposed to your goals as it would seem on the surface. My goal is to empower ALL people. I am of the opinion that feminism on the majority in the west no longer tries to do that, especially with trans folk.

I think feminism has run it's course. Mras are a silly joke (although they are universally more inclusive, but that's not good enough). I don't know how much more simply I can present my views. If its not about all people, its bullshit.

[Hannah]

Challenging people isn't necessarily about argument. Jack has already challenged you; you found it food for thought.

good point! 

[Gopher Gary]

She did it to you again. 

[odeon]

Feminism was promoted, purely because it'd get both parents paying taxes.  Whatever the good intentions of some and the results.

I disagree. If that had been the case there wouldn't be big gaps in income between the sexes.

The "income gap" is largely a myth. If women were actually paid that much less than men for the same work, then employers would be scrambling to hire them to save money. Companies (for the most part) are motivated by the bottom line, not mythological bigotry.

The "income gap" is produced when women take time off work to raise kids while the men keep working. A mans career continues to advance where a woman has to start from square one again after being out of the work force.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/

Haven't we been down this road before? Maybe not you and me, but certainly this board.

Search the board; I can't be arsed to look up the relevant links right now. It's morning and I'm still only on my second cup.

[odeon]

I'm so lost right now and don't get why the heck folks are getting so defensive...I'm to lazy to be defensive or go on it...then again, hey chill and pass the popcorn will ya? 

We even have a smiley for that:

This is what Intensity is, sometimes. It is one of the reasons why I love it. When things start to heat up and arguments are thrown back and forth. When people take an actual stance and speak out.

It remains my firm belief that this board, at its best, enables the spazzes, and the arguments, however misguided or flippant, are a big part of that.

[odeon]

I should add that I've frequently argued against stances taken by both Scrap and Rage, and will sometimes disagree very strongly with what they have to say and do my utmost to bring their arguments down.

Those disagreements have never made me like either of them less, however. Scrap and me have had our fights, for example, but these arguments were never the reason. The fights, I believe, were always about entirely different matters.

So basically what I'm saying is that what you're seeing here is, for the most part, healthy.

[Jack]

Haven't we been down this road before? Maybe not you and me, but certainly this board.

Search the board; I can't be arsed to look up the relevant links right now. It's morning and I'm still only on my second cup.

If this place didn't talk in cycles or circles every now and then, might run out of things to talk about.

[El]

On the whole, feminists are angry and toxic.

Is this just your opinion or can you back it up?

There are a lot of feminists, man. What do you really expect me to do here?

Back up your words, or answer this, which you really haven't yet, IMO:

What do you want to accomplish, here?  Do you just want to whine about how the mean feminists have done bad things and have a pity party under the pretext of moral outrage?  To you want to learn something?  Do you want to teach something?  Do you have a goal at all?

You've obviously skimmed all my posts and only read the parts where I was critical of feminism.  I stated very clearly what my position was, otherwise. I'm not even going to address your aggressive comments which have begun to resemble ad-hominem, rather just tell you that I have been very clear about what my goal is.

If you wish to have a discussion, perhaps you could calm down and address me as a friend rather than an enemy. 

weak.

Skimming people's posts and clinging to ideology without considering what they have to say is pretty weak, IMO. I can tell by the questions you asked that you did not read them.

That aside, if you do read them you will probably realize that I am not as opposed to your goals as it would seem on the surface. My goal is to empower ALL people. I am of the opinion that feminism on the majority in the west no longer tries to do that, especially with trans folk.

I think feminism has run it's course. Mras are a silly joke (although they are universally more inclusive, but that's not good enough). I don't know how much more simply I can present my views. If its not about all people, its bullshit.

OK, to clarify, then:  That is what you're saying your main point is, then?  When reading your posts, I wasn't sure if that was a tangent, or a new issue you had picked because some of your initial statements were going to be too hard to back up.

[Pyraxis]

The "income gap" is largely a myth. If women were actually paid that much less than men for the same work, then employers would be scrambling to hire them to save money. Companies (for the most part) are motivated by the bottom line, not mythological bigotry.

The "income gap" is produced when women take time off work to raise kids while the men keep working. A mans career continues to advance where a woman has to start from square one again after being out of the work force.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/

Haven't we been down this road before? Maybe not you and me, but certainly this board.

Search the board; I can't be arsed to look up the relevant links right now. It's morning and I'm still only on my second cup.

I distinctly remember you backing me up on the fact that there is an income gap and misogyny in the upper ranks of companies with first-hand experience from your job.

['andersom']

The "income gap" is largely a myth. If women were actually paid that much less than men for the same work, then employers would be scrambling to hire them to save money. Companies (for the most part) are motivated by the bottom line, not mythological bigotry.

The "income gap" is produced when women take time off work to raise kids while the men keep working. A mans career continues to advance where a woman has to start from square one again after being out of the work force.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/

Haven't we been down this road before? Maybe not you and me, but certainly this board.

Search the board; I can't be arsed to look up the relevant links right now. It's morning and I'm still only on my second cup.

I distinctly remember you backing me up on the fact that there is an income gap and misogyny in the upper ranks of companies with first-hand experience from your job.

So do I.

[RageBeoulve]

On the whole, feminists are angry and toxic.

Is this just your opinion or can you back it up?

There are a lot of feminists, man. What do you really expect me to do here?

Back up your words, or answer this, which you really haven't yet, IMO:

What do you want to accomplish, here?  Do you just want to whine about how the mean feminists have done bad things and have a pity party under the pretext of moral outrage?  To you want to learn something?  Do you want to teach something?  Do you have a goal at all?

You've obviously skimmed all my posts and only read the parts where I was critical of feminism.  I stated very clearly what my position was, otherwise. I'm not even going to address your aggressive comments which have begun to resemble ad-hominem, rather just tell you that I have been very clear about what my goal is.

If you wish to have a discussion, perhaps you could calm down and address me as a friend rather than an enemy. 

weak.

Skimming people's posts and clinging to ideology without considering what they have to say is pretty weak, IMO. I can tell by the questions you asked that you did not read them.

That aside, if you do read them you will probably realize that I am not as opposed to your goals as it would seem on the surface. My goal is to empower ALL people. I am of the opinion that feminism on the majority in the west no longer tries to do that, especially with trans folk.

I think feminism has run it's course. Mras are a silly joke (although they are universally more inclusive, but that's not good enough). I don't know how much more simply I can present my views. If its not about all people, its bullshit.

OK, to clarify, then:  That is what you're saying your main point is, then?  When reading your posts, I wasn't sure if that was a tangent, or a new issue you had picked because some of your initial statements were going to be too hard to back up.

Ok. I will try and put things as simply as I can once more.

Unless a rights movement is universally inclusive, it is an effort to justify exception. Because of this, Feminism or Male rights advocacy are efforts to justify exceptions on the whole. They are both generally geared towards dealing with male or female issues.

One can move goalposts and say that they themselves do not feel that way as much as they like, but there is no utility there. I'll state my position one more time:

A rights movement MUST be universally inclusive, geared towards the empowerment of ALL. If it isn't, its horse shit. End of.


Join as one, or you are the problem. I apologize if that is not diplomatic enough, but that is my point of view.

[Hannah]

*scratches butt*  dude working out makes my rear sweat what the

[skyblue1]

*scratches butt*  dude working out makes my rear sweat what the

That's why I only watch people working out

[Gopher Gary]

*scratches butt*  dude working out makes my rear sweat what the

That's why I only watch people working out

Because you like watching butt sweat? 

[Genesis]