Author Topic: Now listen here, feminism...  (Read 5609 times)

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Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #105 on: September 27, 2014, 09:59:54 AM »
Last years, I could see in Rage's posts that he cared. Now I find it hard to see it. I see fulmination after fulmination and barely the will to look at things from another pov. Don't know whether it is bitterness or trolling. If it is because he cares, the message gets lost in the way he posts for me.

 :indeed:

The Nitsche quote about those who persue monsters comes to mind. Rage, while running around screeching about the rabbit hole of feminism, has fallen down his own rabbit hole.

Offline awiddershinlife

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #106 on: September 27, 2014, 10:10:24 AM »
The Nitsche quote about those who persue monsters comes to mind. Rage, while running around screeching about the rabbit hole of feminism, has fallen down his own rabbit hole.

That so applies to me. Except I am enraged not about feminism, but that someone violated my ODDness. Now I want to quit my job. But if I rewrite it

'Rage, while running around screeching about the rabbit hole of bureaucratic, Luddite rules, has fallen down her own rabbit hole.'

It does knock a bit of sense into me - thanks  :lol1:
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Offline Pyraxis

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #107 on: September 27, 2014, 10:27:12 AM »
You know full well it has nothing to do with jesus freaks. I used "jesus land" as a derogatory term for America.

Oh ok, then yeah I misunderstood.

Seems like your real goal here is empowerment.
You'll never self-actualize the subconscious canopy of stardust with that attitude.

Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #108 on: September 27, 2014, 02:27:46 PM »
You know full well it has nothing to do with jesus freaks. I used "jesus land" as a derogatory term for America.

Oh ok, then yeah I misunderstood.

Seems like your real goal here is empowerment.

Yes. Yes it is.  :)
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #109 on: September 27, 2014, 02:33:12 PM »
On the whole, feminists are angry and toxic.

Is this just your opinion or can you back it up?

There are a lot of feminists, man. What do you really expect me to do here?

I expect you to refrain from sweeping generalisations that you have no intention of backing up when arguing.

It isn't a sweeping generalization. Feminism does negative things.

You only seem to see negative things. Not only in feminism.

You're too young to be a bitter old man, Rage.

This may be true, Hykes. I just see too many social constructs being used to socially engineer, and it really bothers me. I don't just bitch about it on here or anything though. I actually do take action against the types of things I talk about in various ways.

ITT and related to the thread: I don't think feminism is a positive force as a whole at this point. The movement has been and is being used to do very negative things. Its probably time to just throw it away and replace it with purely egalitarian principles, as to bring about equal opportunities for everyone in a more direct way.

Exceptions and special cases keep being used to screw things up for everyone.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2014, 02:35:44 PM by RageBeoulve »
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline benjimanbreeg

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #110 on: September 27, 2014, 06:13:26 PM »
Feminism was promoted, purely because it'd get both parents paying taxes.  Whatever the good intentions of some and the results. 
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"

"When men lead by words that are false as they preach
Fatality waits in the wings
Surrounded by fools behind walls that are breached
Beware of the jester that sings"


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Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #111 on: September 28, 2014, 01:39:35 AM »
This may be true, Hykes. I just see too many social constructs being used to socially engineer, and it really bothers me. I don't just bitch about it on here or anything though. I actually do take action against the types of things I talk about in various ways.

ITT and related to the thread: I don't think feminism is a positive force as a whole at this point. The movement has been and is being used to do very negative things. Its probably time to just throw it away and replace it with purely egalitarian principles, as to bring about equal opportunities for everyone in a more direct way.

Exceptions and special cases keep being used to screw things up for everyone.

Every social construct will have bad things. The bigger the group of people, the bigger the chance that manipulative and power crazy people find a way to feed their needs in that social construct. I do prefer a social construct with some ways to draw a line to that, apart from smashing some skulls.

If improving a society through any liberation movement, or egalitarian movement leads to regulation after regulation, and exception on rules after exception on rules, it will be counter-productive. And it will only lead to more chances of manipulation and power horny actions.

But, rewriting law, to get non equal things out of it makes sense. And as a society being aware of where pitfalls are, so you can act on it, I think that is good. Women and men are different. As individuals of course. But there are average group differences too. Those will lead to differences in the place of people in society, and when things like that go weird, it is time to act on it.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #112 on: September 28, 2014, 02:17:25 AM »
On the whole, feminists are angry and toxic.

Is this just your opinion or can you back it up?

There are a lot of feminists, man. What do you really expect me to do here?

I expect you to refrain from sweeping generalisations that you have no intention of backing up when arguing.

It isn't a sweeping generalization. Feminism does negative things.

If it isn't a sweeping generalisation, then *back it up*.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline odeon

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #113 on: September 28, 2014, 02:21:02 AM »
Feminism was promoted, purely because it'd get both parents paying taxes.  Whatever the good intentions of some and the results.

I disagree. If that had been the case there wouldn't be big gaps in income between the sexes.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #114 on: September 28, 2014, 06:49:59 AM »
Feminism was promoted, purely because it'd get both parents paying taxes.  Whatever the good intentions of some and the results.

I disagree. If that had been the case there wouldn't be big gaps in income between the sexes.

The "income gap" is largely a myth. If women were actually paid that much less than men for the same work, then employers would be scrambling to hire them to save money. Companies (for the most part) are motivated by the bottom line, not mythological bigotry.

The "income gap" is produced when women take time off work to raise kids while the men keep working. A mans career continues to advance where a woman has to start from square one again after being out of the work force.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #115 on: September 28, 2014, 07:00:13 AM »
Feminism was promoted, purely because it'd get both parents paying taxes.  Whatever the good intentions of some and the results.

I disagree. If that had been the case there wouldn't be big gaps in income between the sexes.

The "income gap" is largely a myth. If women were actually paid that much less than men for the same work, then employers would be scrambling to hire them to save money. Companies (for the most part) are motivated by the bottom line, not mythological bigotry.

The "income gap" is produced when women take time off work to raise kids while the men keep working. A mans career continues to advance where a woman has to start from square one again after being out of the work force.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/

When there are kids, and a couple decides not to go for full time daycare, then most of the time it is the one who earns less who gives up part of the job, to take care of the kids. Economically most sensible thing to do.
And, as you said, it is mainly women to do that, because they often are the ones earning less.

The gender pay gap is not a complete myth. In contracts with fixed incomes, you will not find it, but otherwise it is there.

In jobs were there is not such a thing, but where salary is partly about negotiating, there often is a gap indeed. 
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Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #116 on: September 28, 2014, 07:09:42 AM »
Employers also seem to think men are more obliged to work then women, when they have kids. There is a unpaid parenting leave right in my country. For men it is way harder to get that right than for women. The effect is even more than women do the caring, not the men, simply because their bosses don't grant them the right they have.

All and all, it is a catch 22 thing.

With women way more than men starting from scratch again. Not because men are evil, but because economy makes that profitable for companies.
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Offline Yuri Bezmenov

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #117 on: September 28, 2014, 07:28:44 AM »
Employers also seem to think men are more obliged to work then women, when they have kids. There is a unpaid parenting leave right in my country. For men it is way harder to get that right than for women.


That's as it should be. Men don't have mamary glands.   :bounce:

Quote
The effect is even more than women do the caring, not the men, simply because their bosses don't grant them the right they have.

No, that's more driven by biology.


Quote
With women way more than men starting from scratch again. Not because men are evil, but because economy makes that profitable for companies.

No, you just expect that men should be given a career handicap, by government fiat, that women have because of biology.

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #118 on: September 28, 2014, 08:15:15 AM »
Employers also seem to think men are more obliged to work then women, when they have kids. There is a unpaid parenting leave right in my country. For men it is way harder to get that right than for women.


That's as it should be. Men don't have mamary glands.   :bounce:

Quote
The effect is even more than women do the caring, not the men, simply because their bosses don't grant them the right they have.

No, that's more driven by biology.


Quote
With women way more than men starting from scratch again. Not because men are evil, but because economy makes that profitable for companies.

No, you just expect that men should be given a career handicap, by government fiat, that women have because of biology.

Oh FFS Scrap, did you really imply here women should do the caring for kids, because biology made them more capable to do so?

Bollocks, utter bollocks. Yes, biologically, women give birth, biologically, women will lactate with less hassle than men. But being a caring parent, capable to give loving and healthy care to an infant has nothing to do with what is between the legs of a parent. Some women are not fit to be a parent, no matter of having given birth, plenty of men are great fathers. You are doing your gender no service with this.

Your biology reason is as valid as me telling you people are meant to travel by foot, because biology. There is more to life than biology alone.

Your biology reason is validating mothers having kids after divorce, and men fit for only paying alimony, because of biology.

Utter bollocks.

And kids do need more than milk alone. Even when breast milk was the only option for tiny babies, men were capable of being part of caring for their kids.
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Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Now listen here, feminism...
« Reply #119 on: September 28, 2014, 08:37:05 AM »
This may be true, Hykes. I just see too many social constructs being used to socially engineer, and it really bothers me. I don't just bitch about it on here or anything though. I actually do take action against the types of things I talk about in various ways.

ITT and related to the thread: I don't think feminism is a positive force as a whole at this point. The movement has been and is being used to do very negative things. Its probably time to just throw it away and replace it with purely egalitarian principles, as to bring about equal opportunities for everyone in a more direct way.

Exceptions and special cases keep being used to screw things up for everyone.

Every social construct will have bad things. The bigger the group of people, the bigger the chance that manipulative and power crazy people find a way to feed their needs in that social construct. I do prefer a social construct with some ways to draw a line to that, apart from smashing some skulls.

If improving a society through any liberation movement, or egalitarian movement leads to regulation after regulation, and exception on rules after exception on rules, it will be counter-productive. And it will only lead to more chances of manipulation and power horny actions.

But, rewriting law, to get non equal things out of it makes sense. And as a society being aware of where pitfalls are, so you can act on it, I think that is good. Women and men are different. As individuals of course. But there are average group differences too. Those will lead to differences in the place of people in society, and when things like that go weird, it is time to act on it.

Quote
If improving a society through any liberation movement, or egalitarian movement leads to regulation after regulation, and exception on rules after exception on rules, it will be counter-productive. And it will only lead to more chances of manipulation and power horny actions.

Not if exceptions are removed, and all are held to the exact same standards. This is why I say feminism is a weak link, and so is the male right movement. At this point I think its time to throw these away and get on the same page. It will make for a far stronger, less sickly culture.

I don't know how better to explain it. All these "i'm so special" movements are just causing too many problems, in my opinion.
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"