Any of this may be true but it is not the point I was trying to make.
The point was down to choices. It is not honest and objective to overlook the choices people make.
Your point seems to boil down to, if people decide not to play the game then they deserve the little they get.
But you're not looking beyond the rules of your immediate workspace. You and your coworkers work for commission, which is dependent on the number of sales made. Fine. But my argument was originally about the old boys' club in upper management, and not all of its members are there because of unusual competence or dedication. They're there because their friends are there, and like hired like.
I've witnessed the old boys' club firsthand, and I'm a male. It is a reality.
I'm not saying it's all because of a conscious design, OR a cultural bias, OR male chauvinism. I'm saying that regardless of the reason(s), it's there and unless it is recognised, it will not change.
Rage's reasoning re the almost-raped forum is, while ridiculous, an example of the bias at work. Is his attitude a conscious one? I very much doubt it, but his way of attacking the problem is to belittle it, to ignore it, to destroy a more useful discussion: If <insert a number here> percent of the stories are true, then ALL men should be locked in or whatever his ridiculous suggestion is. It's a non-argument, it's just destructive.
Nobel laureates in management is a nice way of dodging what I was saying, btw, Sir Les. I don't know how this works at your workplace, and I don't pretend to. I think you may well have a point, in your context, but as for equality, your workplace does not tell the whole story.
There's no equality yet, IMHO.
It is a good way of dodging it. Part of the good reason it was a good way of dodging it, is that I was not talking about Noble laureates and I think it had little to do with management and the connection you wanted to ale I was not seeing. It was me saying "OK so we are talking about management or laureates?"
I personally would never be a politician. I chose not to go down this path. Were I to, I would imagine I have to completely change my values and morality. I would have to build a skill set I do not have and probably become someone that the "me" of today would not have the time of day for.
I could not imagine the concessions I would need to make to move into management. It would not work for me.
I could name many more things too that for a variety of reasons, I would not chose to pursue.
BUT it is worth noting that IF I chose not to and if i am not prepared to play the game, I can not then complain that I was never "let in".
Exams do not have to get easier to take, the students have to learn what to answer, how to answer, and in what format. If they chose not to or not to learn to conform within this, they suffer a consequence.
Sportsmen? Ditto.
People seeking out management opportunities? Yes.
What if the thought of going to schmooze with the big boss after work on a Friday is a bit off in your opinion? What if you place more merit on teamwork than individual competitiveness? What if the thought of monthly golf bores you stupid? What if you do not feel like knifing your fellow managers in the back to earn the favour or to rise on someone else's fall from grace? What if you do not see the workers as a faceless mass of automatons (rather than individuals)? What if you were not ego driven and selfish?
Well I would gauge this all, if not playing the game, at least limiting yourself in success attaining or rising in management. If you think that a woman or two having drinks with an almost exclusive male gathering, after work is going to be something that a lot of women would feel comfortable with doing on a regular basis, I think you may be right. BUT if that is the game and men in the same position would NOT feel uncomfortable, then making a case to change this to suit the party that may be uncomfortable is probably not reasonable.
If the effect of this is to weed out people that will not fit the game and only the most committed, men or women are left to play, then I do no pretend it is gender inequality nor do I suppose it is an inclusive way of doing things. It is simply making it very difficult for all but the people who are prepared to do or cope with all the bullshit to join the upper echelons of management. The elite.
Screw the Elite, I will not get there. But then I would not want a part of it anyhow.
