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Author Topic: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95  (Read 1323 times)

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Offline bodie

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2013, 12:59:29 AM »
Thatcher famously 'did not negotiate with terrorists' which is why she failed at making any peace in Northern Ireland.   

She was either too up herself or not wise enough to see the bigger picture.

Ooooh don't get me started on Thatcher!  :zoinks:



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Offline Semicolon

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2013, 10:27:32 AM »
Thatcher famously 'did not negotiate with terrorists' which is why she failed at making any peace in Northern Ireland.   

She was either too up herself or not wise enough to see the bigger picture.

Ooooh don't get me started on Thatcher!  :zoinks:



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That belongs on a dartboard  :GA:



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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2013, 10:44:29 AM »
If there is a hell we know where the bitch is now  :thumbup:

Offline 'andersom'

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2013, 10:45:54 AM »
I'm sorry I have to be such a grouch on this, guys. I do think that Nelson accomplished quite a bit of good. I also think that he tortured people to death in public in his younger days. I do not like how the media is casting him as a person who is identical in his achievements to Ghandi. The media is flat out lying here in America, portraying him as a jesus or something. I mean the guy actually lit people on fire in public. That is not the quality of some sort of perfect human being.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing

(His wife actually made a statement about burning people. Something about making the world a better place one match at a time or something. Pretty sure the ANC publically denounced this crap. If i'm wrong on that, correct me.)

I don't like lies. Why not celebrate the man for being a human being who managed to accomplish some good things along with some scary things? I know we shouldn't all sit in the darkest corner of the room, wringing our hands and feeling guilty about the worst things we've ever done. I'm just saying, lets live in reality.

Nelson Mandela himself did not set people on fire in public or torture people to death in public. His ex-wife Winnie is widely regarded as a nasty piece of work but what does that have to do with him? Yes, he did found the armed wing of the ANC, Umkhonto We Sizwe (MK), but this was in response to the Sharpeville massacre. Yes he did receive what would be regarded as 'terrorist' training but his involvement with MK involved attacks on infrastructure with the possibility of warfare later on. The worst excesses occurred while he was in prison and not involved with the ANC or MK.

He was a freedom fighter who was forced to use non-peaceful means but then again many other good men in history have been forced towards violence to fight an oppressor. To be honest though rage your first paragraph is big pile of bullshit. Who the hell told you that Mandela tortured people to death in public? The organisation he was part of did some incredibly fucked up shit but not Mandela himself. He wasn't a saint but he wasn't the monster you're making out either. As for Gandhi, well he was a sick little monkey as well when you do a little research, he was a racist prick in his younger years (coincidentally during time spent in South Africa). No man is perfect but could you at least tell the truth instead of wild slander?

Okay so that was only his wife, and perhaps he had nothing to do with her saying that. But he still used violence. The news is LYING, and giving the youth a false view of what someone who fights for freedom actually does. I'm not saying i'm against what the guy did. I'm saying the way the media an even the president is portraying him REALLY bugs me. Just watch, in a few months people will be saying to their children:

"Now you eat your veggies and follow the rules and one day you'll grow up and teach people how to be peaceful, just like Nelson Mandela and Jesus, honey!"

Cm'on. That's not realistic at all, and everyone knows it. We CAN handle the truth!




That says more about the news you get than about Mandela.
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Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2013, 01:09:38 PM »
I'm sorry I have to be such a grouch on this, guys. I do think that Nelson accomplished quite a bit of good. I also think that he tortured people to death in public in his younger days. I do not like how the media is casting him as a person who is identical in his achievements to Ghandi. The media is flat out lying here in America, portraying him as a jesus or something. I mean the guy actually lit people on fire in public. That is not the quality of some sort of perfect human being.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing

(His wife actually made a statement about burning people. Something about making the world a better place one match at a time or something. Pretty sure the ANC publically denounced this crap. If i'm wrong on that, correct me.)

I don't like lies. Why not celebrate the man for being a human being who managed to accomplish some good things along with some scary things? I know we shouldn't all sit in the darkest corner of the room, wringing our hands and feeling guilty about the worst things we've ever done. I'm just saying, lets live in reality.

Nelson Mandela himself did not set people on fire in public or torture people to death in public. His ex-wife Winnie is widely regarded as a nasty piece of work but what does that have to do with him? Yes, he did found the armed wing of the ANC, Umkhonto We Sizwe (MK), but this was in response to the Sharpeville massacre. Yes he did receive what would be regarded as 'terrorist' training but his involvement with MK involved attacks on infrastructure with the possibility of warfare later on. The worst excesses occurred while he was in prison and not involved with the ANC or MK.

He was a freedom fighter who was forced to use non-peaceful means but then again many other good men in history have been forced towards violence to fight an oppressor. To be honest though rage your first paragraph is big pile of bullshit. Who the hell told you that Mandela tortured people to death in public? The organisation he was part of did some incredibly fucked up shit but not Mandela himself. He wasn't a saint but he wasn't the monster you're making out either. As for Gandhi, well he was a sick little monkey as well when you do a little research, he was a racist prick in his younger years (coincidentally during time spent in South Africa). No man is perfect but could you at least tell the truth instead of wild slander?

Okay so that was only his wife, and perhaps he had nothing to do with her saying that. But he still used violence. The news is LYING, and giving the youth a false view of what someone who fights for freedom actually does. I'm not saying i'm against what the guy did. I'm saying the way the media an even the president is portraying him REALLY bugs me. Just watch, in a few months people will be saying to their children:

"Now you eat your veggies and follow the rules and one day you'll grow up and teach people how to be peaceful, just like Nelson Mandela and Jesus, honey!"

Cm'on. That's not realistic at all, and everyone knows it. We CAN handle the truth!




That says more about the news you get than about Mandela.

Yeah it does, actually. Maybe i'm just griping to the wrong crowd. Most of you guys aren't from my country so you probably don't understand how idiotic the flow of information is here.

Sorry for yelling.  :lol1:
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2013, 01:13:44 PM »
We CAN handle the truth!

We should, anyway.
Like I meantioned earlyer in this thread - even as a teen I would be baffled at the bafflement of my peers, when they thought that their hero Che Guevara had "betrayed them" by shooting people. Shooting people - IN GENERAL - as in, during battle!
What. Did. They. Expect?

I mean, my assumption was ALWAYS that someone like Che Guevara had to shoot people now and then - hell - even shoot a lot of people! It was war! They were engaged in battles! These were also the ages of US-sponsored dictatorships across Latin America. If Rage is angry at US gvt now - imagine how angry latinamericans were at US influence - and US backed dictatorships back then... :D
It pissed me off! If they're gonna have posters of him in their room - don't get surprised after YEARS of idol-worship, to discover "OH MY GOD - he fought wars in Africa! I thought he was Cuban!" he wasn't Cuban either, you ignorant pissnecks.

I think Che Guevara was a decent feller. Shooting people and all. That's to be expected from an armed revolutionary.

I always assumed the same. In my mind a freedom fighter had to fight!

Yes. And a lot of times that means one has to resort to violence. I guess the thing that's really pissing me off(which I've not had the communication skills to get across), is that a freedom fighter is being illustrated as a teddy bear and the personification of bambi and the little mermaid combined in one body.

Dude. No. Stop telling the kids that kind of stuff, media. That is highly damaging, in my opinion.
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline El-Presidente

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2013, 01:42:54 PM »
We CAN handle the truth!

We should, anyway.
Like I meantioned earlyer in this thread - even as a teen I would be baffled at the bafflement of my peers, when they thought that their hero Che Guevara had "betrayed them" by shooting people. Shooting people - IN GENERAL - as in, during battle!
What. Did. They. Expect?

I mean, my assumption was ALWAYS that someone like Che Guevara had to shoot people now and then - hell - even shoot a lot of people! It was war! They were engaged in battles! These were also the ages of US-sponsored dictatorships across Latin America. If Rage is angry at US gvt now - imagine how angry latinamericans were at US influence - and US backed dictatorships back then... :D
It pissed me off! If they're gonna have posters of him in their room - don't get surprised after YEARS of idol-worship, to discover "OH MY GOD - he fought wars in Africa! I thought he was Cuban!" he wasn't Cuban either, you ignorant pissnecks.

I think Che Guevara was a decent feller. Shooting people and all. That's to be expected from an armed revolutionary.

I always assumed the same. In my mind a freedom fighter had to fight!

Yes. And a lot of times that means one has to resort to violence. I guess the thing that's really pissing me off(which I've not had the communication skills to get across), is that a freedom fighter is being illustrated as a teddy bear and the personification of bambi and the little mermaid combined in one body.

Dude. No. Stop telling the kids that kind of stuff, media. That is highly damaging, in my opinion.

I agree with you there. Madiba should be remembered as a strong man who fought oppression.

Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2013, 03:07:21 PM »
We CAN handle the truth!

We should, anyway.
Like I meantioned earlyer in this thread - even as a teen I would be baffled at the bafflement of my peers, when they thought that their hero Che Guevara had "betrayed them" by shooting people. Shooting people - IN GENERAL - as in, during battle!
What. Did. They. Expect?

I mean, my assumption was ALWAYS that someone like Che Guevara had to shoot people now and then - hell - even shoot a lot of people! It was war! They were engaged in battles! These were also the ages of US-sponsored dictatorships across Latin America. If Rage is angry at US gvt now - imagine how angry latinamericans were at US influence - and US backed dictatorships back then... :D
It pissed me off! If they're gonna have posters of him in their room - don't get surprised after YEARS of idol-worship, to discover "OH MY GOD - he fought wars in Africa! I thought he was Cuban!" he wasn't Cuban either, you ignorant pissnecks.

I think Che Guevara was a decent feller. Shooting people and all. That's to be expected from an armed revolutionary.

I always assumed the same. In my mind a freedom fighter had to fight!

Yes. And a lot of times that means one has to resort to violence. I guess the thing that's really pissing me off(which I've not had the communication skills to get across), is that a freedom fighter is being illustrated as a teddy bear and the personification of bambi and the little mermaid combined in one body.

Dude. No. Stop telling the kids that kind of stuff, media. That is highly damaging, in my opinion.

I agree with you there. Madiba should be remembered as a strong man who fought oppression.

Well, aside from bastardising his memory which is already a bad thing, it kind of indoctrinated youth with a false concept of reality. I'm not going to say that's intentional, although it probably is.
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline bodie

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2013, 03:18:09 AM »
Here is a list of just SOME of the laws passed in South Africa.

Masters and Servants Acts of 1856
These Acts, which had been passed between 1856 and 1904 in the four territories, remained in force after Union.
They made it a criminal offence to breach the contract of employment. Desertion, insolence, drunkenness,
negligence and strikes were also criminal offences. Theoretically these laws applied to all races,
but the courts held that the laws were applicable only to unskilled work, which was performed mostly by Black people.

Black Land Act No 27 of 19 June 1913
Prohibited Blacks from owning or renting land outside designated reserves
(approximately 7 per cent of land in the country). Commenced: 19 June 1913.

The Class Areas Bill of 1923
which proposes compulsory residential and trading segregation for Indians throughout South Africa.

The Industrial Conciliation Act No 11 of 1924
This act provides for job reservation. Excluded Blacks from membership of registered trade unions and
prohibited registration of Black trade unions. Commenced: 8 April 1924.

The Areas Reservation and Immigration and Registration (Further Provision) Bill 1925
It defines Indians as aliens and recommends limitation of population through repatriation.

The Liquor Act of 1927
Africans and Indians are denied employment by license holders and are not allowed to serve liquor and drive liquor vans.
They are also denied access to licensed premises.

The Native Service Contracts Act of 1932
This meant that a farmer could expel the entire tenant family if any one member defaulted on his or her
labour obligation. The Act had additional elements allowing for farmers to whip tenants,
as well as compel farm tenants to carry passes.

Representation of Blacks Act No 12 of 1936
Removed Black voters in the Cape from the common roll and placed them on a separate roll.

The Aliens Act No 1 of 1937
Restricted and regulated the entry of certain aliens into the Union
and regulated the right of any person to assume a surname.

The Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act, Act No 55 of 1949

Immorality Amendment Act, Act No 21 of 1950
It prohibited adultery, attempted adultery or related ‘immoral'
acts such as sexual intercourse between White and Black people.

The Bantu Authorities Act, Act No 68 of 1951
The government introduced this Act by setting up Black ethnic governments known as “Homelands”.
The government used this Act to push Black people out of urban areas to stay in these homelands.

Public Safety Act of 1953
for the detention without trial for any dissent.

Bantu Homelands Citizens Act of 1970
No Black person will eventually qualify [for South African nationality and the right to work or live in South Africa]
because they will all be aliens, and as such, will only be able to occupy the houses bequeathed to them by their
fathers, in the urban areas, by special permission of the Minister.

Police Act No 16 of 1979
Granted the police further powers with regard to search and seizure. Commenced: 3 August 1979.


Fucked up or what?  Who could blame an uprising.

I just don't understand why it appealed to so many 'white' people to live there? 
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Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2013, 01:11:17 PM »
No I agree. That was fucked up and needed to be stood up to. What I disagree with is giving youth a false concept of how that happened. Nelson didn't stand up to that bullying by hugging the spice girls, he did it with harsh, and often violent actions.
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline El-Presidente

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2013, 02:06:25 PM »
Sanitising and emasculating historical figures is often done. Thomas Edison was an utter cunt for example whose inventing skills paled in comparison to his much less well known but vastly more brilliant contemporary Nikola Tesla. In another example Abraham Lincoln was actually a massive racist yet both of these men are portrayed as God like figures when educating American children.

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2013, 02:32:53 PM »
Lincoln was a real piece of shit. He just wanted to force the southern states back into the Union again.

Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2013, 04:09:16 PM »
Sanitising and emasculating historical figures is often done. Thomas Edison was an utter cunt for example whose inventing skills paled in comparison to his much less well known but vastly more brilliant contemporary Nikola Tesla. In another example Abraham Lincoln was actually a massive racist yet both of these men are portrayed as God like figures when educating American children.

Yes, and I hate that. I myself was taught that Columbus discovered America for example. It took me forever to unlearn a lot of the bullshit I was indoctrinated with as a child and a young teen. Purposeful undermining of our history is a serious threat to our development as a species, in my opinion.

I really, REALLY hate that.
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2013, 10:49:08 AM »
I was about to say, Rage, you might be preaching to the choir here ;]
Mandela should be someone you wanted to advertise, someone who would not back down from the opressive government, who took his jail time like a man AND emerged the ruler of that nation. Damn :D

Offline RageBeoulve

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Re: Nelson Mandela has died at the age of 95
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2013, 11:59:31 AM »
I was about to say, Rage, you might be preaching to the choir here ;]
Mandela should be someone you wanted to advertise, someone who would not back down from the opressive government, who took his jail time like a man AND emerged the ruler of that nation. Damn :D

He is. Just not in the way the media is doing it. Nelson's life was not a fucking episode of my little pony.  :lol1:
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"