Goddamn this shit is annoying.

[TheoK]

That experiment I posted about is visible with your bare eyes. You can also observe things in space that wouldn't be there if it weren't for quantum mechanics.

[RageBeoulve]

That experiment I posted about is visible with your bare eyes. You can also observe things in space that wouldn't be there if it weren't for quantum mechanics.

Yeah but that's just seeing the effects of something you assume is because of quantum mechanics. There is no way to actually prove that's whats actually happening without detecting the way particles actually behave.

[TheoK]

But you do detect them, though not with your bare eyes.

But on the other hand you can't know for sure that anything you are experiencing exists "for real". Someone could be dreaming everything that we hold for "true" and "real" and we would never know.

[RageBeoulve]

But you do detect them, though not with your bare eyes.

But on the other hand you can't know for sure that anything you are experiencing exists "for real". Someone could be dreaming everything that we hold for "true" and "real" and we would never know.

Actually we CAN detect them and observe their behavior using the LHC, but that's so expensive its ridiculous.

[TheoK]

 

[Jack]

Didn't really mean to get into this discussion, but there's no way around the understanding that quantum theory is thought theory, largely tested in imaginary experiments using abstraction. Not trying to negate the importance of math within the realm of physics; that would be silly. Just took offense to seeing Lestat being told he can't understand a concept, because he isn't able to communicate that concept as an abstraction using mathematical symbols which represent ideas. Was just trying to tell him that there are people who are skilled at communicating these concept in an abstraction he can in fact understand, and that abstraction is written language.

[TheoK]

The moomintroll is a math nerd   

[Jack]

Jack accepts this about him.

[RageBeoulve]

Didn't really mean to get into this discussion, but there's no way around the understanding that quantum theory is thought theory, largely tested in imaginary experiments using abstraction. Not trying to negate the importance of math within the realm of physics; that would be silly. Just took offense to seeing Lestat being told he can't understand a concept, because he isn't able to communicate that concept as an abstraction using mathematical symbols which represent ideas. Was just trying to tell him that there are people who are skilled at communicating these concept in an abstraction he can in fact understand, and that abstraction is written language.

Unfortunately, yes. Quantum theory is still thought theory in many respects. And I HATE abstract stuff getting in my science.

[odeon]

What's been proven at the quantum level?

Spectral lines are a consequence of quantum physics.

[odeon]

What's been proven at the quantum level?

And btw, "quantum level" is not equal to "quantum physics". There are observable effects of the latter, providing empirical evidence of what happens at the former.

I know, I'm splitting hairs.

[odeon]

I always wished I wasn't fucking dyscalculic.

Aside from more mundane day to day needs, Lack of almost all math really holds me back from being able to better understand a lot of the quantum physics and particle physics concepts I find interesting

Unfortunately quantum physics is an area that requires a decent understanding of mathematics. Without maths it becomes very philosophical and counter-intuitive in nature.

Without mathematics, it's still theory, comprehensible theory but without the theoretic equations is still comprehensible.

Comprehensible, but impossible to test. One could develop theories till the cows come home, but without knowing how to crunch some numbers, there isn't a way to prove a thing. Especially since most of the things the theory is based on are too small to detect.

Quite the contrary. There are easy ways of confirming quantum physics phenomena.

You wot m8? Besides smashing particles together at the speed of light, i'm pretty sure there isn't a way to plumb those depths.

Tell me your secretses.

See above.

[odeon]

That experiment I posted about is visible with your bare eyes. You can also observe things in space that wouldn't be there if it weren't for quantum mechanics.

Yeah but that's just seeing the effects of something you assume is because of quantum mechanics. There is no way to actually prove that's whats actually happening without detecting the way particles actually behave.

Testing and observing makes the theory likely, though. It's what physics is about. You formulate a theory that attempts to explain observed phenomena, and then test the theory by making predictions and trying to observe those. Very often you'll have to revise the theory.

Not every test is visible to the human eye, of course. You will need particle accelerators and whatnot to confirm a lot of those predictions, but some--like spectral lines--are readily observable.

[odeon]

Didn't really mean to get into this discussion, but there's no way around the understanding that quantum theory is thought theory, largely tested in imaginary experiments using abstraction. Not trying to negate the importance of math within the realm of physics; that would be silly. Just took offense to seeing Lestat being told he can't understand a concept, because he isn't able to communicate that concept as an abstraction using mathematical symbols which represent ideas. Was just trying to tell him that there are people who are skilled at communicating these concept in an abstraction he can in fact understand, and that abstraction is written language.

You're right, of course, but my point was not to claim that the concept cannot be explained to the layman (it can), only that it cannot make sense without a basis in mathematics. As I said, it is rather counter-intuitive at that level because we relate best to what we can see and readily observe.

There is little in the concept when expressed in what basically is a spoken language that makes quantum mechanics more likely than classical mechanics.

[RageBeoulve]

What's been proven at the quantum level?

Spectral lines are a consequence of quantum physics.

Well..

Yeah. Or something totally different that we'll discover in the future. Oh science. You so crazy.