Author Topic: Government shutdown time!  (Read 5758 times)

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Offline odeon

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #105 on: December 28, 2018, 11:27:35 AM »
Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.

Who said anything about "good"?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline Calandale

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #106 on: December 28, 2018, 04:03:30 PM »
Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.

Who said anything about "good"?

'better' implies an understanding of good.



Offline odeon

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #107 on: December 28, 2018, 04:41:30 PM »
Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.

Who said anything about "good"?

'better' implies an understanding of good.

Nope, it just means that things improve from the previous state.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Jesse

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #108 on: December 28, 2018, 04:51:49 PM »
I must say, this topic aged very well~  :eyelash:
:skywarp:

Offline odeon

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #109 on: December 28, 2018, 05:20:18 PM »
It's one of those timeless topics. It will happen again, you know.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline Calandale

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #110 on: December 29, 2018, 06:24:28 AM »
Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.

Who said anything about "good"?

'better' implies an understanding of good.

Nope, it just means that things improve from the previous state.

Great. So, since Nazi Germany was better at processing jews than most modern states....

Offline odeon

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #111 on: December 30, 2018, 03:33:10 AM »
Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.

Who said anything about "good"?

'better' implies an understanding of good.

Nope, it just means that things improve from the previous state.

Great. So, since Nazi Germany was better at processing jews than most modern states....

I'd question your use of "better".
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Calandale

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #112 on: December 30, 2018, 04:55:39 AM »
Only if one has a reasonable and objective view of 'good'.

Who said anything about "good"?

'better' implies an understanding of good.

Nope, it just means that things improve from the previous state.

Great. So, since Nazi Germany was better at processing jews than most modern states....

I'd question your use of "better".

Which requires a concept of good. If 'better' is not rooted in good, it can mean anything reasonable - for example, efficiency.

I thought this would be fucking obvious.

It leads me to an oft wondered point about you - whether you're willing to abandon all reasonable
contemplation of an issue, just so that you don't have to admit you're wrong.

Offline odeon

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #113 on: December 30, 2018, 11:51:21 AM »
Heh. No, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong when convinced that it's the case.

And yes, I do see your point, but "better at processing Jews" is wholly different from "we no longer have to worry about the world economy crashing because of an orange moron's tweets". The latter is a positive change in state while the former is... well, what? You wanted an objective definition of "good", I merely suggest that eliminating Trump would mean one less worry.

And here's something I often wonder about you: do you argue because you actually think that somebody is wrong or because you like to argue? Seems to me that this is about the latter - hence your rather contrived "processing Jews" example.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline Calandale

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #114 on: December 30, 2018, 12:18:50 PM »
Heh. No, I'm happy to admit I'm wrong when convinced that it's the case.

Yes, I've seen you do it. I just think you have a tendency to defend the indefensible.

But, I'm posting in the mirror there.


Quote
And here's something I often wonder about you: do you argue because you actually think that somebody is wrong or because you like to argue? Seems to me that this is about the latter - hence your rather contrived "processing Jews" example.

Both. Arguing can be enjoyable. It's not usually worth it if you know your opponent is right though.
It IS worth it to expose different thought patterns however, so sometimes it's valuable to pursue even
once you see weaknesses in your own argument.


In this case, I made a quick correction quip (about the need to define an objective valuation - the good),
and was floored (as often happens) to see that my meaning wasn't obvious.

As to the processing of jews, I find that taking extreme cases is often the best way to show someone
the fact that their interpretation is unsustainable. The only problem with it is people who cheat by
pulling Godwin's Law out - a cheap out since the very beginning.

Offline odeon

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #115 on: December 30, 2018, 01:42:46 PM »
I didn't mind the extremeness of the processing Jews example, I simply questioned its relevance. Made me think, though, always a good thing.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein

Offline Calandale

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #116 on: December 30, 2018, 05:51:06 PM »
Then it managed precisely what it was intended to do.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #117 on: January 10, 2019, 02:14:01 AM »
I didn't mind the extremeness of the processing Jews example, I simply questioned its relevance. Made me think, though, always a good thing.

You need more practice at thinking. Cal could be your tutor
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Offline Calandale

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #118 on: January 10, 2019, 05:22:49 AM »
Then it managed precisely what it was intended to do.

It's only a shame that it doesn't affect his behavior.

Frustrating, because just as you feel he might be beginning to see why people
object to what he's doing, then he closes his mind to it again.

Offline odeon

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Re: Government shutdown time!
« Reply #119 on: January 10, 2019, 10:53:04 AM »
Then it managed precisely what it was intended to do.

It's only a shame that it doesn't affect his behavior.

Frustrating, because just as you feel he might be beginning to see why people
object to what he's doing, then he closes his mind to it again.

FFS, stop the bs already. You're not better than anyone else here.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein