Iowa FTW

[McGiver]

Also how the hell did he get in there with a twelve gauge and 30 shells?! That's a lot to carry i'd think. Has anyone found anything?

back pack....like the one Dora uses.

[TheoK]

Dora 

[bodie]

You have parliamentary supremacy, correct? In the UK, Parliament can make any law it wants to. In the US, Congress can't legally enact certain laws. For example, Congress can't pass a law that declares someone guilty of a particular crime.

One of the biggest differences is the basis for the legitimacy of the government. In the UK, power is theoretically drawn from the monarch. In the US, the government's power is willingly surrendered by the general populace in order to promote the common good. We fought, as one nation, for our independence. I don't like big government because, under the American system, the people don't surrender any more power than the government needs to perform its basic functions. We have the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to enforce this.

I don't understand what would happen if your government started passing laws that a vast majority of Brits didn't like. What could you do about it? The Constitution is a way for the government to check its own power, and for the people to check the government.

There are 650 seats in parliament.  Each seat represents an area of the UK and whoever controls that seat is voted for by it's residents in an election.   To form a government in the UK you need a majority of 326 seats.

New laws need to be voted for in parliament also and a strong government who have a large majority will achieve this quite easily.

However,  the current government did not get a majority and need the cooperation of their coalition partners The Liberal Democrats.

You will no doubt have noted that our Prime Minister recently asked Parliament about military action in Syria.  He lost that vote.

It is interesting to note that our Prime Minister and your President could have taken action anyway.

Our government have and do still apply unpopular laws.  The infamous poll tax is one of them.  I personally clashed with police during an anti poll tax demonstration that turned into a riot. The people spoke.   The poll tax was scrapped.

The new 'bedroom tax' is a new one by the tory party.  I believe it will cost them the next election.

I should also state that the involvement of the Monarchy in government is symbolic only.  They never shout or side with a political party. 

[TheoK]

No one ever chose to have a government in the first place, not anymore than anyone ever chose to get raped.

[TheoK]

Take my example with a farmer before the industrial revolution. Why the hell would he want a government? To be forced to pay tax and forced to go to war and die for the fucking king?

[RageBeoulve]

The US constitution is a touchy subject for you. I can't help noticing that it is when criticising it that you get mad and start with the name calling. Like here.

I think it's safe to say that it is sacred to a lot of people in the US. It is a weakness you have, IMO, because it can effectively keep you from evolving.

But I don't want to see the US crumble. It is a nation with problems but it is also a great nation, one that contributes so much more to the world than the nonsense that is usually on the news. Please don't think I dislike your country or your people just because I criticise your constitution.

Ok. I think we've reached the root of our disagreement. I see things pretty much the opposite of what you do. The U.S. constitution is actually one of the last American things in my country, and its beginning to die. My government has begun to completely ignore it and operate almost completely separate of the people which was not how this nation was designed to run.

I agree with Semicolon. If we're going to change the constitution, we need to make it much stronger.

[RageBeoulve]

Also how the hell did he get in there with a twelve gauge and 30 shells?! That's a lot to carry i'd think. Has anyone found anything?

back pack....like the one Dora uses.

I don't think you can put such a large shotgun in a backpack, dude. I was envisioning kind of a Kyle reese from terminator thing, maybe he sawed off part of the stock and slipped it under his clothing?

[Semicolon]

You have parliamentary supremacy, correct? In the UK, Parliament can make any law it wants to. In the US, Congress can't legally enact certain laws. For example, Congress can't pass a law that declares someone guilty of a particular crime.

One of the biggest differences is the basis for the legitimacy of the government. In the UK, power is theoretically drawn from the monarch. In the US, the government's power is willingly surrendered by the general populace in order to promote the common good. We fought, as one nation, for our independence. I don't like big government because, under the American system, the people don't surrender any more power than the government needs to perform its basic functions. We have the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to enforce this.

I don't understand what would happen if your government started passing laws that a vast majority of Brits didn't like. What could you do about it? The Constitution is a way for the government to check its own power, and for the people to check the government.

There are 650 seats in parliament.  Each seat represents an area of the UK and whoever controls that seat is voted for by it's residents in an election.   To form a government in the UK you need a majority of 326 seats.

New laws need to be voted for in parliament also and a strong government who have a large majority will achieve this quite easily.

However,  the current government did not get a majority and need the cooperation of their coalition partners The Liberal Democrats.

You will no doubt have noted that our Prime Minister recently asked Parliament about military action in Syria.  He lost that vote.

It is interesting to note that our Prime Minister and your President could have taken action anyway.

Our government have and do still apply unpopular laws.  The infamous poll tax is one of them.  I personally clashed with police during an anti poll tax demonstration that turned into a riot. The people spoke.   The poll tax was scrapped.

The new 'bedroom tax' is a new one by the tory party.  I believe it will cost them the next election.

I should also state that the involvement of the Monarchy in government is symbolic only.  They never shout or side with a political party.

If you are satisfied that you have a voice in your government, then don't feel that you need to impose American values on yourself. I would not want to live under a system where one branch of the government can do whatever it wants, given a majority, and I wouldn't want my taxes to support even a symbolic monarchy. To me, the basic principles that underlie the US are too antithetical to a monarchy or a state church to support either one. All people can't be created equal if some of them get special rights by virtue of nobility.

[RageBeoulve]

Wonderful diagram that sums up the situation here.

[bodie]

I got curious about this of course, since the guy for some reason seemed to have no motive at all. After some digging, I still don't know shit about him. I'm left with even more questions about this.

Why did he kill a dozen people?

How did he get onto a military post with a large shotgun and thirty shells?

What about that guy they said may have been helping him? That just kind of disappeared didn't it?

What the fuck was with the order to stand down?

What is his background? What kind of a guy was he? Did he have a father and mother? History of mental illness?

WHY AND HOW? I WANT TO KNOW AND THE PISS STREAM MEDIA IS NOT PROVIDING ANSWERS LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO!

I understand his motivation was intrinsic.  As opposed to the mass shootings in Kenya which was motivated extrinsically.

I believe he had a military naval career which was cut short due to some disciplinary action.  That is one bone of contention.  I believe he was working within the naval base for a temp agency doing some menial task.  Adding insult to injury.  It has also been reported that he was present during 9/11 and helped with the rescue of injured victims.  Possible  PTSD ?

I can see how he might feel badly treated by the military and working in that environment doing a civilian job would only amplify these feelings.  If he had no one to talk to about this then those feelings would build up and occupy more and more of his conscious mind.  Anger, rage, disgruntled, feeling of being 'wronged', jealousy of military personnel, If it is true about 9/11 and possibly PTSD as an added ingredient then I guess he was a ticking time bomb.

Looking at trying to prevent future instances I would suggest ex military, particularly those who's career has been blocked due to misconduct or resulting in disciplinary action,  are offered some support.  Possibly even deterring them from taking civilian jobs within a military environment.

Incidentally I feel all ex military do not get nearly enough help. Not really talking about that man now, but just 'in general'.    I know in the UK there are many on the streets,  whose marriage has failed, who struggled to get a job simply because they struggled to cope on civvy street.  Struggled without the routine and structure offered by, the army,  for example.

I don't think the general public appreciate what soldiers do.  The things they endure and the price they pay, sometimes the ultimate price.  At the end of their career they are just tossed aside.  Adjusting is not always easy.  They deserve better.

[bodie]

If you are satisfied that you have a voice in your government, then don't feel that you need to impose American values on yourself. I would not want to live under a system where one branch of the government can do whatever it wants, given a majority, and I wouldn't want my taxes to support even a symbolic monarchy. To me, the basic principles that underlie the US are too antithetical to a monarchy or a state church to support either one. All people can't be created equal if some of them get special rights by virtue of nobility.

Didn't say I was satisfied.   

Just trying to explain how it is.  I am no Royalist either.  I know that recently The Queen has started  to pay tax.  I really have no idea on what they (Monarchy) cost compared with the revenue they bring in.  It would be interesting to see. 

I am against any form of class structure.

[TheoK]

Off with their heads!

[Adam]

How is it a natural right? I don't understand that.

To me, natural rights are things like the right to life, freedom of thought, freedom of speech etc

Where does a gun come in to that?

ALso Lit, I find it amusing how your automatic response to someone disagreeing with you is always, "he doesn't understand this, he doesn't understand that, he doesn't understand tha concept of x, y or z"

No. We disagree with you. That does not make us stupid.

[Adam]

I don't understand the last point ^

House of Commons just voted against war in Syria BECAUSE of public opinion. People were definitely speaking up against it

And before Iraq there were BIG anti-war protests. Didn't stop them that time, of course, but people definitely spoke up



and Lit, I said the govt doesn't intrude in EVERYTHING. Of course more is regulated officially with big govt.

In simpler terms, how can you folks not be boiling over with anger at this point? As far as I know you're getting fucked pretty hard over there too.

I AM angry. Lots of people are agnry. Just not necessarily about the things that you think we should be angry about. People are angry about the break up of the NHS etc. Not the lack of guns.

[Adam]

No one ever chose to have a government in the first place, not anymore than anyone ever chose to get raped.

Most sensible people wouldn't agree with you though. Most people accept that, while not perfect, govt is necessary