Attack on Syria imminent

[ZEGH8578]

I don't like pragmaticism (I hate it). Gun ownership is a right.

But I can give you one pragmatic reason nevertheless: a madman can kill a few dozens. The state can kill thousands and millions. And it has been proven again and again that it does.

I would agree with you, if you said _weapons_ are a right. But guns are too instantaneous and irreversible.
It's almost impossible to stab a friend to death by accident. Accidental killings happen as a regular statistic.

I agree that a state must be kept in check by its civilians, under a danger of violence, but then you have to arm civilians with mobile artillery vehicles and such.

Don't get me wrong - few things warm my heart more than seeing civilians begin to return fire on their aggressor authorities, but that is another kind of issue, than carying a 9mm pistol inside your pocket, so to shoot muggers - or someone walking towards you scarily.
Argue something else, and I'll begin to aggree: Assault rifles in peoples homes, safely locked up. NOT for carrying around. NOT for use while drunk...

The Norwegian "Home Defense" allready issue assault rifles and ammunition to be kept in homes, for quick mobilization. More of this, for example. This would give the people an edge, while they wait for army defectors bringing with them heavy equipment (if not, any resistance is pointless).
Handguns are not enough to achieve this, since they wont even penetrate most modern soldiers armor.

[RageBeoulve]

I don't like pragmaticism (I hate it). Gun ownership is a right.

But I can give you one pragmatic reason nevertheless: a madman can kill a few dozens. The state can kill thousands and millions. And it has been proven again and again that it does.

I would agree with you, if you said _weapons_ are a right. But guns are too instantaneous and irreversible.
It's almost impossible to stab a friend to death by accident. Accidental killings happen as a regular statistic.

I agree that a state must be kept in check by its civilians, under a danger of violence, but then you have to arm civilians with mobile artillery vehicles and such.

Don't get me wrong - few things warm my heart more than seeing civilians begin to return fire on their aggressor authorities, but that is another kind of issue, than carying a 9mm pistol inside your pocket, so to shoot muggers - or someone walking towards you scarily.
Argue something else, and I'll begin to aggree: Assault rifles in peoples homes, safely locked up. NOT for carrying around. NOT for use while drunk...

The Norwegian "Home Defense" allready issue assault rifles and ammunition to be kept in homes, for quick mobilization. More of this, for example. This would give the people an edge, while they wait for army defectors bringing with them heavy equipment (if not, any resistance is pointless).
Handguns are not enough to achieve this, since they wont even penetrate most modern soldiers armor.

Its also almost impossible to shoot a friend to death if you use a gun properly, like a full grown adult.

[ZEGH8578]

I don't like pragmaticism (I hate it). Gun ownership is a right.

But I can give you one pragmatic reason nevertheless: a madman can kill a few dozens. The state can kill thousands and millions. And it has been proven again and again that it does.

I would agree with you, if you said _weapons_ are a right. But guns are too instantaneous and irreversible.
It's almost impossible to stab a friend to death by accident. Accidental killings happen as a regular statistic.

I agree that a state must be kept in check by its civilians, under a danger of violence, but then you have to arm civilians with mobile artillery vehicles and such.

Don't get me wrong - few things warm my heart more than seeing civilians begin to return fire on their aggressor authorities, but that is another kind of issue, than carying a 9mm pistol inside your pocket, so to shoot muggers - or someone walking towards you scarily.
Argue something else, and I'll begin to aggree: Assault rifles in peoples homes, safely locked up. NOT for carrying around. NOT for use while drunk...

The Norwegian "Home Defense" allready issue assault rifles and ammunition to be kept in homes, for quick mobilization. More of this, for example. This would give the people an edge, while they wait for army defectors bringing with them heavy equipment (if not, any resistance is pointless).
Handguns are not enough to achieve this, since they wont even penetrate most modern soldiers armor.

Its also almost impossible to shoot a friend to death if you use a gun properly, like a full grown adult.

I know.
But people aren't responsible. They're often poorly educated, rash, and well, drunk.
I've had gun training. I know how to carry and hold an assault rifle properly. I've actually guarded weapon caches with a "sharp" rifle (as we call it here) and orders including to shoot to kill.

I'm not some hysterical who thinks guns are gonna go off by themselves, or by bumping into them or something. People DO blast each others tho, and they do it accidentally, and they do it cus they lack the proper education. Oh, and guess where they do it! In America! I mean, hello, shouldn't you guys be like breast-fed with gun responsability rules by now!?

Like I said, give people spears at least, cus then you actually have to use some muscle to accidentally thrust it through someones head. You know what I mean? I do get all your arguments, I really do. I just find "guns for everyone" too risky a prospect to allow. Assault rifles in locked boxes, YES. But lock them and only use them when the country goes to hell!
I have NO idea what people need to bring military weapons to the grocery store for. What are we even talking about!?

[Bastet]

I don't like pragmaticism (I hate it). Gun ownership is a right.

But I can give you one pragmatic reason nevertheless: a madman can kill a few dozens. The state can kill thousands and millions. And it has been proven again and again that it does.

I would agree with you, if you said _weapons_ are a right. But guns are too instantaneous and irreversible.
It's almost impossible to stab a friend to death by accident. Accidental killings happen as a regular statistic.

I agree that a state must be kept in check by its civilians, under a danger of violence, but then you have to arm civilians with mobile artillery vehicles and such.

Don't get me wrong - few things warm my heart more than seeing civilians begin to return fire on their aggressor authorities, but that is another kind of issue, than carying a 9mm pistol inside your pocket, so to shoot muggers - or someone walking towards you scarily.
Argue something else, and I'll begin to aggree: Assault rifles in peoples homes, safely locked up. NOT for carrying around. NOT for use while drunk...

The Norwegian "Home Defense" allready issue assault rifles and ammunition to be kept in homes, for quick mobilization. More of this, for example. This would give the people an edge, while they wait for army defectors bringing with them heavy equipment (if not, any resistance is pointless).
Handguns are not enough to achieve this, since they wont even penetrate most modern soldiers armor.

Its also almost impossible to shoot a friend to death if you use a gun properly, like a full grown adult.

I know.
But people aren't responsible. They're often poorly educated, rash, and well, drunk.
I've had gun training. I know how to carry and hold an assault rifle properly. I've actually guarded weapon caches with a "sharp" rifle (as we call it here) and orders including to shoot to kill.

I'm not some hysterical who thinks guns are gonna go off by themselves, or by bumping into them or something. People DO blast each others tho, and they do it accidentally, and they do it cus they lack the proper education. Oh, and guess where they do it! In America! I mean, hello, shouldn't you guys be like breast-fed with gun responsability rules by now!?

Like I said, give people spears at least, cus then you actually have to use some muscle to accidentally thrust it through someones head. You know what I mean? I do get all your arguments, I really do. I just find "guns for everyone" too risky a prospect to allow. Assault rifles in locked boxes, YES. But lock them and only use them when the country goes to hell!
I have NO idea what people need to bring military weapons to the grocery store for. What are we even talking about!?

Cheney has a gun.

Bob Rivers Show - Cheney's Got a Gun

[RageBeoulve]

Oh, and guess where they do it! In America! I mean, hello, shouldn't you guys be like breast-fed with gun responsability rules by now!?

Ah no. We're breastfed socialist ideals, bigger gvt is better, mindless living habits, DEPENDENCY. Sorry to put down my own country, but America is no longer the kind of place its reputed to be. Personal responsibility is actually villainized here, dude.

[Bastet]

Fucking Muslims. let them kill each other until none of them are left, 

Why should we care if they are fighting each other? lets give them more reason to want to fight us for invading the Islam world can we?

WILL WE EVER LEARN?!

I doubt it. 

The US cares very deeply about any resources they have that they can steal.

[bodie]

By all means, share your research. I'd like to see. I'm just still stinging from Egypt. Help me see things the way you do.

Truth is 'how I see things' is not crystal clear at all.   I have many reservations and uncertainty but so far my inadequate brain tells me:

* Regardless of skin colour and religion,  we (internationally) should not turn our backs on innocent people who are bullied, tortured and murdered when they are crying for assistance.   

* I believe Syria ought to be liberated and freed from their oppressive regime.

* I think many nations are lazy and fail to act because they have come to rely on the US for it's military provisions.

* The United Nations is becoming a contradiction in terms and unless it demands muscle from it's members and does what it was meant to -  it might as well change its name to 'Divided Nations'. 
Syrian refugees pray for Western bombs

Syrian mother says goodbye to children after reported gas attack

U.N. Debate: Political Prisoner Eligio Cedeno Confronts Chavez, Venezuela Lashes Out

The video of this girl is well worth watching.  She is 
UN Watch Brings Syrian Victim to Take on Assad Regime

* We moan and get angry about the actions of our respective governments.  But you know what?  didn't we vote them in?  These people I mention above don't even have a choice.

* Our governments peddle bullshit.  They inflict much stupidity on us.  Can you imagine a government like the Assad Regime?  Assad regime makes the Tories look like Fifi and the Flowertots.

* I don't think it will do any good if the US attacks Syria with missiles on it's own.

* If the US decide against military action on it's own,  then it might force the members of the UN to get off their asses.

* I don't think this will be a swift operation.  The assad regime need 'taking out'.




I  am still thinking about things.

[RageBeoulve]

You're right. If America or England does it, then Syria will be a bank slave forever after.

I  am still thinking about things.

I think we all are hun. Probably shouldn't sweat that part.

[DirtDawg]

A grave danger of asking for help, and showing your clear cut opposition to your own government, is that no "overturn" is guaranteed. People are watched, and the Syrian government did find individual people and torture them to death in the beginning of the conflict, probably still do.

To a Syrian civilian, there is no certainty, what if Bashar wins? What if it ends up like in Burma? We saw it happen, it is a possibility, everyone who had the guts to speak out will be rounded up alphabetically, and "disappeared".

And still people don't think that gun ownership is a right...

Gun ownership is one of those rights, established by our very own constitution more than two hundred years ago, that is being incrementally eroded.  It is actually happening so slowly, that the average person does not even have a clue that their rights are being restrictricted.

This is why honest, law abiding people like me have used some of our limited resources to amass weaponry and seemingly excessive LOADS of ammunition in amounts that seem to be beyond reason to the "average person."  It is those average persons who will be hurting if "PUSH EVER COMES TO shove."  We who have taken advantage of our rights will be able to arm our "friends" to keep us all safe, if we have to travel together in the future.

I hold regrets for you pansy-ass Euro-types who can not arm yourselves properly.

GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!

[bob]

Fucking Muslims. let them kill each other until none of them are left, 

Why should we care if they are fighting each other? lets give them more reason to want to fight us for invading the Islam world can we?

WILL WE EVER LEARN?!

I doubt it. 

Dick.

[bob]

I admire Obama for the stand he is taking.

[conlang returns]

Gun ownership is one of those rights, established by our very own constitution more than two hundred years ago, that is being incrementally eroded.

By whom???  Certainly not Congress. 

[TheoK]

A grave danger of asking for help, and showing your clear cut opposition to your own government, is that no "overturn" is guaranteed. People are watched, and the Syrian government did find individual people and torture them to death in the beginning of the conflict, probably still do.

To a Syrian civilian, there is no certainty, what if Bashar wins? What if it ends up like in Burma? We saw it happen, it is a possibility, everyone who had the guts to speak out will be rounded up alphabetically, and "disappeared".

And still people don't think that gun ownership is a right...

Gun ownership is one of those rights, established by our very own constitution more than two hundred years ago, that is being incrementally eroded.  It is actually happening so slowly, that the average person does not even have a clue that their rights are being restrictricted.

This is why honest, law abiding people like me have used some of our limited resources to amass weaponry and seemingly excessive LOADS of ammunition in amounts that seem to be beyond reason to the "average person."  It is those average persons who will be hurting if "PUSH EVER COMES TO shove."  We who have taken advantage of our rights will be able to arm our "friends" to keep us all safe, if we have to travel together in the future.

I hold regrets for you pansy-ass Euro-types who can not arm yourselves properly.

GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!

The push came to shove long ago. Yet you talk like the enemy was someone else than the US government. What is your opinion on the NSA thing? Is it justified that they treat US citizens like criminals when they are not even suspects of any crime? Mass surveillance of millions of people?

And despite gun laws the discrepancy between the guns of private citizens vs. the guns of the state is much greater in the US than in Sweden.

That it is insane that we need a license and other shit to own a gun to start with here and that we can't carry a legal gun in self-defense is a whole different question.

[RageBeoulve]

Gun ownership is one of those rights, established by our very own constitution more than two hundred years ago, that is being incrementally eroded.

By whom???  Certainly not Congress.

Would you elaborate?

[Adam]

Oh, and guess where they do it! In America! I mean, hello, shouldn't you guys be like breast-fed with gun responsability rules by now!?

Ah no. We're breastfed socialist ideals, bigger gvt is better, mindless living habits, DEPENDENCY. Sorry to put down my own country, but America is no longer the kind of place its reputed to be. Personal responsibility is actually villainized here, dude.

Really? It definitely doesn't seem that way. Americans seem to have a fear of socialism that I've never quite understood. It seems to be a dirty word to you guys. Almost equated with communism. I think America is probably the last country I'd say is being breastfed socialist ideals.