You know how....

[RageBeoulve]

Most animals can't grasp the concept of themselves in relation to the rest of the world? Its been shown that even some chimps don't understand the concept of their own reflection, and they attack it.

Explain this?



This cat obviously sees its reflection, and appears to be understanding the connection of it's own movements to what it sees in the mirror. Its experimenting in the mirror.

I'd like to discuss this, and if anyone knows any examples such as images, videos, studies done about this, please share them. I'd like to know more about animals and the sense of self. I'll start off with a few questions of my own I guess, to get things moving.

What exactly does a sense of self mean? Is it necessarily connected to higher intelligence, or could a creature be intelligent without it? What kinds of animals do you think are best suited o this trait?(excluding humans of course)

[Jesse]

Being aware. well the short answer is once adam and eve took part in the tree of knowledge, thier "eyes" were opened.
I think there might be some truth to this story. not in the sence that all this magical bullshit happened, but more like once our brains got larger and we were now more aware of our surrondings and could make choices.

its also a choice to believe in something to be good or evil. So, for me anyways the relevancy of why things the way they are isn't really an issue for me. simply endlessly following my own nature with an unclouded mind is best for living

[RageBeoulve]

Why are some less intelligent animals able to accomplish this state while more intelligent animals are not? Its been found that even some squid react inquisitively to their own reflection.

[Beardy McFuckface]

Some cats and dogs can recognise themselves.

There is a difference between self-awareness and self-recognition.

[RageBeoulve]

Some cats and dogs can recognise themselves.

There is a difference between self-awareness and self-recognition.

Please explain. If you are aware of yourself, do you not recognize your place?

[Beardy McFuckface]

You are aware of who you are, but cannot grasp how a mirror works, causing a lack of self-recognition.

Babies can't recognise themselves until they are 18 months old, despite the brain being fully developed. We're taught it.

[RageBeoulve]

You are aware of who you are, but cannot grasp how a mirror works, causing a lack of self-recognition.

Babies can't recognise themselves until they are 18 months old, despite the brain being fully developed. We're taught it.

So if we're taught this quality, intelligence and critical thinking is possible without it. This is what you think? Its all very mysterious to me, and that's why I asked the question.

I just see one problem. If we're taught this quality, how come on the average a human baby is able to achieve it by 18 months old? Do we all teach our babies the same way on average?

[Beardy McFuckface]

Same way babies can't talk until they reach a certain age. Parents teach them by encouraging it, along with basic logical deductions, ie. I can see my parents in the mirror, meaning they're the same.

I'm no child psychologist or biologist, but my point is that we don't get our abilities by instinct. It's developed by learning and experience, and that includes our self-recognition.

[RageBeoulve]

Same way babies can't talk until they reach a certain age. Parents teach them by encouraging it, along with basic logical deductions, ie. I can see my parents in the mirror, meaning they're the same.

I'm no child psychologist or biologist, but my point is that we don't get our abilities by instinct. It's developed by learning and experience, and that includes our self-recognition.

If it's taught, why is it usually achieved at a certain age though?

[Beardy McFuckface]

It's only achieved by teaching. If you don't, they won't know.

Same with talking or anything else, neglecting the child will cause developmental problems in such areas.

[RageBeoulve]

It's only achieved by teaching. If you don't, they won't know.

Same with talking or anything else, neglecting the child will cause developmental problems in such areas.

You don't think that a group of children left completely out of the loop in learning any known spoken language, would develop one amongst themselves?

I do.

[Beardy McFuckface]

A group, perhaps. Not individually. We do still have some instincts.

However, the brain development would be much slower, making them not cognitively similar to how most people are.

[RageBeoulve]

A group, perhaps. Not individually. We do still have some instincts.

However, the brain development would be much slower, making them not cognitively similar to how most people are.

Even if they were taught most other skills? Just not language? I'm not so sure, dude.

[Beardy McFuckface]

You can't really teach a lot of skills without some sort of communication. We are social creatures, so starving us from socialising and communication can slow down development, since we NEED it for us to mentally progress.

[RageBeoulve]

You can't really teach a lot of skills without some sort of communication. We are social creatures, so starving us from socialising and communication can slow down development, since we NEED it for us to mentally progress.

True.