Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse

['andersom']

I think the life of the women in Iraq could be considered worse than men just because of their status, or lack of.

Bush actually made a point of announcing a pledge to help the women in Iraq.  I don't know what happened there.

I think the moment Bush announced Mission Accomplished he has tried to wash his hands of things.

I think you are dead wrong about women's status or the men being worse off.

You know , I would imagine, that women there (predominantly Muslim) are able to (according to their teachings) get jobs as men are and that the women have no duty to share any proceeds with their family, whereas the men are obliged to use their earnings to look after women and their children.
So shit goes down and the country is invaded over and over. Culture and society is shattered and jobs are limited. Now, better the men taking the limited jobs and sharing with the family or women getting jobs and not obliged to share with the family? Better men (the disposable ones) risking their lives exposing themselves to danger as the public face while the women and children (the valuable ones) stay inside the confines of the house?

What status tells me here is simply that men here are more likely to be killed, men are being killed at a faster rate than women. The society is sandwiched between Warlords and Taliban and trying to appease both. Men are trying to protect their women from both and invaders and getting killed for their efforts. The gender roles are restrictive on both and neither can get back to where they were before the string of invasions, when society there was advanced and progressive.

So status of women? Women doing it tougher than men while men are getting killed off 2 to 1?
I would be interested to see what you mean. I honestly don't see it.

I'm not going in on who has it worse, men or women in Iraq.

The war killed mainly men. In most wars that is the case, because more men are enlisted or drafted. In some countries only men will be enlisted or drafted.

A woman with a job also has to provide for her family. A country with 65% women, because of a war, will have lots of widowed mothers, with widowed relatives too. A widowed woman, with a job, may have to provide for more than just her fatherless core family, and will have to raise her kids without a father too.

['andersom']

It makes a whole lot of sense. In really simplistic terms, if you consider that war creates fear and fear creates extremism and fearful people attack the vulnerable, I can see how Western intervention could be responsible for making the situation of women and children that much worse.

Also I love the concept of an imperialist feminist and I'm glad somebody's speaking out against that particular strain of hypocrisy.

Alas, this does make sense.

[Al Swearegen]

I think as hard as it is for war widows to be war widows, the process of soldiers's wives becoming war widows is harder on the men. In a similar way that I think whilst it would not have been a lot of fun for the women on the Titanic to watch their husbands drown, it possibly would be less fun for the men.

[Adam]

Now I will give a concession to you Adam. Imagine UK was suddenly overrun by some real fire and brimstone vengeance filled churchy types. A bunch of Joseph Kony types and then there was a larger faction like the Westboro Baptist Church. Obviously these people are going to have wacko belief structures and not be in line with most of the citizens. THAT is what has happened in Iraq.

Um, exactly. That is what has happened in Iraq.

So why are you posting links to a "decent" Islamic site?

Men and women are not equal in Iraq. That is the point.

[Al Swearegen]

Now I will give a concession to you Adam. Imagine UK was suddenly overrun by some real fire and brimstone vengeance filled churchy types. A bunch of Joseph Kony types and then there was a larger faction like the Westboro Baptist Church. Obviously these people are going to have wacko belief structures and not be in line with most of the citizens. THAT is what has happened in Iraq.

Um, exactly. That is what has happened in Iraq.

So why are you posting links to a "decent" Islamic site?

Men and women are not equal in Iraq. That is the point.

Men and women are equally oppressed in very different ways.
The men and women of Iraq are towing the line. The line of the Taliban. The Taliban are radical Fundamentalissts as radicalised as The Westboro Baptist s are with American Christianity.
They would reduce Iraq to barbarism and feudal tribalism. Iraquis and women and men citizens are oppressed as I say by the two opposing forces the Tribal Warlords and the Taliban. Remove these and allow for the culture to get back to where they were and you will have a progressive society once more. I know people like to imagine that the women are oppressed and the men are not or that they are oppressed because they are Muslim or women. It just is not the case. Women in Iraq ARE oppressed because they are in a country where all the governing factions are radical fundamentalist arseholes. The same can be said of men.

[Adam]

I don't know why you're trying to tell me about fundamentalists and the WBC - that's not what we were disagreeing about, is it?

The point is that women (and men, yes) are oppressed in Iraq. But I believe women are of a lower status there than men. I'm not sure how you fail to see that

[Al Swearegen]

I don't know why you're trying to tell me about fundamentalists and the WBC - that's not what we were disagreeing about, is it?

The point is that women (and men, yes) are oppressed in Iraq. But I believe women are of a lower status there than men. I'm not sure how you fail to see that

I am not sure how you see it.

[RageBeoulve]

I don't know why you're trying to tell me about fundamentalists and the WBC - that's not what we were disagreeing about, is it?

The point is that women (and men, yes) are oppressed in Iraq. But I believe women are of a lower status there than men. I'm not sure how you fail to see that

I am not sure how you see it.

Okay why the hell are you guys arguing about that shit instead of thinking up solutions? YOU could be the one who comes up with the idea that ends that problem. YES YOU. *points* You could be chosen. You could be anointed! Because we're all anointed. Humans could be the best thing ever if they would actually be human. Instead this is what I usually see.



Cmon, guys. Lets get together and FIGHT THE POWER. Don't be a bunch of poop flingers anymore.

[Bastet]

I don't know why you're trying to tell me about fundamentalists and the WBC - that's not what we were disagreeing about, is it?

The point is that women (and men, yes) are oppressed in Iraq. But I believe women are of a lower status there than men. I'm not sure how you fail to see that

I am not sure how you see it.

Women in Iraq are treated like animals. Men can rape a woman and claim they didn't. A woman would need 2 male witnesses to prove anything. That is fucked up.

[RageBeoulve]

I don't know why you're trying to tell me about fundamentalists and the WBC - that's not what we were disagreeing about, is it?

The point is that women (and men, yes) are oppressed in Iraq. But I believe women are of a lower status there than men. I'm not sure how you fail to see that

I am not sure how you see it.

Women in Iraq are treated like animals. Men can rape a woman and claim they didn't. A woman would need 2 male witnesses to prove anything. That is fucked up.

Enough talk. Show me activism!

[Bastet]

I don't know why you're trying to tell me about fundamentalists and the WBC - that's not what we were disagreeing about, is it?

The point is that women (and men, yes) are oppressed in Iraq. But I believe women are of a lower status there than men. I'm not sure how you fail to see that

I am not sure how you see it.

Women in Iraq are treated like animals. Men can rape a woman and claim they didn't. A woman would need 2 male witnesses to prove anything. That is fucked up.

Enough talk. Show me activism!

I have to work on myself first. I have my shyness to overcome.

[RageBeoulve]

I don't know why you're trying to tell me about fundamentalists and the WBC - that's not what we were disagreeing about, is it?

The point is that women (and men, yes) are oppressed in Iraq. But I believe women are of a lower status there than men. I'm not sure how you fail to see that

I am not sure how you see it.

Women in Iraq are treated like animals. Men can rape a woman and claim they didn't. A woman would need 2 male witnesses to prove anything. That is fucked up.

Enough talk. Show me activism!

I have to work on myself first. I have my shyness to overcome.

Hmph!

[Al Swearegen]

OK Rage two things. Arguing establishes points of view to which we understand our position in the scheme of the greater whole and specifically what the person you are directly arguing. You say its shit, I say it isn't. Adam states that he has no idea how I can see something that he sees as obvious and I don't. In asking him to explain I get my reference point. Prior to this, any attempt to act on this unknown, is guess work.

You are not suggesting going off half-cocked is a good idea.

Secondly when you say, "What are you going to do about it?"

The Warlords?
The Taliban?
The devolving society of the Iraquis?
Feminism?
War casualties?
Honour Killing?
Slave Trade?
Rape?
Murders in the Street?
Disproportionate Men and Women in Iraq?
Biased news stories identifying problems as they affect women not men?
People being oppressed in Iraq?

C'mon man we covered a fair bit of ground. What are you on about when you ask what are you going to do about it?

What does shitflinging have to do with anything.

I am really lost.

[Al Swearegen]

I don't know why you're trying to tell me about fundamentalists and the WBC - that's not what we were disagreeing about, is it?

The point is that women (and men, yes) are oppressed in Iraq. But I believe women are of a lower status there than men. I'm not sure how you fail to see that

I am not sure how you see it.

Women in Iraq are treated like animals. Men can rape a woman and claim they didn't. A woman would need 2 male witnesses to prove anything. That is fucked up.

Men in Iraq are treated like animals. Men can be enlisted in armies to be killed off at a whim. Men also have to risk their safety by being the face of the family and risk their lives daily, outside the homes whilst their wives, mothers and daughters get to stay home. That is fucked up.

[Bastet]

OK Rage two things. Arguing establishes points of view to which we understand our position in the scheme of the greater whole and specifically what the person you are directly arguing. You say its shit, I say it isn't. Adam states that he has no idea how I can see something that he sees as obvious and I don't. In asking him to explain I get my reference point. Prior to this, any attempt to act on this unknown, is guess work.

You are not suggesting going off half-cocked is a good idea.

Secondly when you say, "What are you going to do about it?"

The Warlords?
The Taliban?
The devolving society of the Iraquis?
Feminism?
War casualties?
Honour Killing?
Slave Trade?
Rape?
Murders in the Street?
Disproportionate Men and Women in Iraq?
Biased news stories identifying problems as they affect women not men?
People being oppressed in Iraq?

C'mon man we covered a fair bit of ground. What are you on about when you ask what are you going to do about it?

What does shitflinging have to do with anything.

I am really lost.

.  All news is biased. Rage is a tactless apeman who is proving a point in a very clumsy manner. He doesn't dance the dance of pretentiousness that is expected on intensity.