Life for women in Iraq ten years after...much worse

[Jack]

Yeah we got rid of Saddam but then did a giant doo doo in Iraq


then fucked off, left 'em to it.   Great.

Thought he was tried and convicted by his own people.

[Parts]

It should be done, with things like child marriage, LGBT equality, castes, FGM etc

I don't mean by flying in and bombing the shit out of them of course. but "culture" is no excuse

How?  It's not like you can force it without a lot of killing involved.  The majority will have to want it and be determined to change things and even then their will be violence.  I am not saying don't try but it's not an easy prospect.

[bodie]

Yeah we got rid of Saddam but then did a giant doo doo in Iraq


then fucked off, left 'em to it.   Great.

Thought he was tried and convicted by his own people.

He was.  It was made possible when operation red dawn invaded Iraq with the intention of removing Saddam from power.     He fled and was later captured.  He was tried under an Iraqi interim government appointed by.....UN/ US/UK Coalition.

[Adam]

Yeah it will always be difficult and these kinda things will take generations to fully change

But by increasing awareness and educating the youth

These things work particularly well with stuff like child marriage and FGM - campaign to get the girls in education and it will work upwards from there

With minorities like gay/trans people and ethnic group tho I guess it's more difficult. In those cases I think international pressure combined with education is best.

I don't know exactly how, but I believe we SHOULD try and change these things

The risk is that it ends up looking like some kind of Western imperialism, like colonialists trying to force their christianity on african tribes etc

But equality and human rights do need to be worked for, whether it goes against years of culture/tradition or not.

[bodie]

I like your Pinocchio btw,  very cute. 

[Adam]

I liked the cat in Pinocchio

What was it called?

Figaro!

[Jack]

Yeah we got rid of Saddam but then did a giant doo doo in Iraq


then fucked off, left 'em to it.   Great.

Thought he was tried and convicted by his own people.

He was.  It was made possible when operation red dawn invaded Iraq with the intention of removing Saddam from power.     He fled and was later captured.  He was tried under an Iraqi interim government appointed by.....UN/ US/UK Coalition.

I know, but for the sake of history he was executed by his own people, or else 'we' would be political assassins. It's interesting to see a European person refer to the war in terms of 'we'. That's refreshing. Usually it's 'they' in terms of middle easterners and the US, often not considering the UN makes the decisions.

[TheoK]

It's those Brits. We Swedes were not on it. We advised against the war 

[Kapkao]

I do not understand why the world and his wife are not doing a fat lot to help them.  The 'powers' that be seem only motivated to interfere where development contracting is concerned. 

Fixed it for ya. 

Yeah we got rid of Saddam but then did a giant doo doo in Iraq


then fucked off, left 'em to it.   Great.

we fucked off about 10 years too late. Now our empire is crumbling under the combined weight of debt and an administrative fuckup too big to fully grasp at.

[Al Swearegen]

You don't see that women have lower status in Iraq? LOL

Or is it ONLY about violence?

Even then, women have the problems of "honour" killings, domestic violence and FGM

http://www.islamicfaq.org/equality/

Now you were saying , Adam? LOL

Now I will give a concession to you Adam. Imagine UK was suddenly overrun by some real fire and brimstone vengeance filled churchy types. A bunch of Joseph Kony types and then there was a larger faction like the Westboro Baptist Church. Obviously these people are going to have wacko belief structures and not be in line with most of the citizens. THAT is what has happened in Iraq. The roles imposed on BOTH genders are horrible and for different reasons.

The people in Iraq too, know that the moment the international troops are out, these Westboro type Taliban will still be there. They know the Taliban will wait them out.

[bodie]

Yeah we got rid of Saddam but then did a giant doo doo in Iraq


then fucked off, left 'em to it.   Great.

Thought he was tried and convicted by his own people.

He was.  It was made possible when operation red dawn invaded Iraq with the intention of removing Saddam from power.     He fled and was later captured.  He was tried under an Iraqi interim government appointed by.....UN/ US/UK Coalition.

I know, but for the sake of history he was executed by his own people, or else 'we' would be political assassins. It's interesting to see a European person refer to the war in terms of 'we'. That's refreshing. Usually it's 'they' in terms of middle easterners and the US, often not considering the UN makes the decisions.

My memory tells me it was a UN backed initiative.  I recall only US and UK troops being deployed.  It is entirely possible other nations were involved, but if they were I do not recall it.  Too lazy to check.  It was defo a 'we' thing, though.

[Jack]

My memory tells me it was a UN backed initiative.  I recall only US and UK troops being deployed.  It is entirely possible other nations were involved, but if they were I do not recall it.  Too lazy to check.  It was defo a 'we' thing, though.

Who sends troops are not necessarily the only ones involved. China stays out of it and focuses on promoting their world image; they simply foot the bill with clean hands. The UN makes all of the big decisions. This particular game of risk has been played for over thirty years. And you're right about what you said before; it's money. Though it's also the power of money, and they have it, among a culture with no short of zealots. 'We' must impose our culture and morality upon them, lest they do it to us.

[Semicolon]

Yeah we got rid of Saddam but then did a giant doo doo in Iraq


then fucked off, left 'em to it.   Great.

Thought he was tried and convicted by his own people.

He was.  It was made possible when operation red dawn invaded Iraq with the intention of removing Saddam from power.     He fled and was later captured.  He was tried under an Iraqi interim government appointed by.....UN/ US/UK Coalition.

I know, but for the sake of history he was executed by his own people, or else 'we' would be political assassins. It's interesting to see a European person refer to the war in terms of 'we'. That's refreshing. Usually it's 'they' in terms of middle easterners and the US, often not considering the UN makes the decisions.

My memory tells me it was a UN backed initiative.  I recall only US and UK troops being deployed.  It is entirely possible other nations were involved, but if they were I do not recall it.  Too lazy to check.  It was defo a 'we' thing, though.

Your memory fails you. The ones to send troops were the US, Australia, the UK and Poland. There was intense international criticism, especially from France, that precluded UN approval.

Source

[Jack]

It's those Brits. We Swedes were not on it. We advised against the war 

Americans may have to be the bad guy, but Europe has to assimilate them. Poor refugees, running from the evil USofA.

[bodie]

I remember the protests.  I am not surprised about Australia, it rings a few bells, but I honestly had no idea about Poland's involvement.

I remember  the band Coldplay publicly criticizing,  along with the usual protest from Bono.    Also Madonna was married to Guy Ritchie and she was in the UK, she sent a message of support to the troops.

I liked Madonna that day, for I strongly believe that once troops are out there, they should get nothing but support, whether you support the cause or not.   I can imagine how disheartening it would be to be over there and hearing the news that a bunch of musicians are not behind you.  Soldiers don't make the political decisions but they do put their life on the line.