Why America will collapse.

[Gopher Gary]

I think those butch photos are aimed mostly at Russians.
Analysts in Russia will be well aware of how these photos will be seen differently in "the west", where we - quite frankly - see them as a bit humorous. Mister president all bare-chested riding a horse in the wilderness, we KNOW his office isn't in the fucking wilderness, the first thing we think is "lol, pr stunt. but cool still."
To the Russians however, it will probably be much more powerful (and also more polarizing (and less lulzy))
I would, as a thinking, intellectual person, be quite worried, if our prime minister first used trickery to stay in office for longer than usual - then begun to pose bare chested in the wilderness, alluding to warriors and vikings and machoness. As a resident - I wouldn't find it funny.

That's a really good explanation, Zeg, and I never considered it could be a scare tactic. Something or another will probably make me think of this conversation again later.  Remind me if something makes you think of it too.

[ZEGH8578]

It's more of a solidification of personality cult, than a direct scare tactic, is what I mean.

My point is - we, the outsiders, see it as kindova gag, while in reality it's more serious than that. We would experience the seriousness much more, if we suddenly saw Obama doing the same thing "what in the... has he lost his mind?"

You can draw a paralel to the macho posturing Mussolini did, for example. Italians back then weren't stupid either, they recognized his exaggerated gestures, but to a supporter - it is proof of his "balls", his vigor, his eagerness, it is a "no bullshit" kind of man, who is not afraid of how he is percieved.
To the opponents, it is the "final proof" that he is completely nuts, totally unfit to rule anybody. It polarizes.
Hitler did the same thing, he would photograph and then perfect his wild arm flailing, the eye-roll-back faces, all that stuff, in order to deliberately come off as "something else", a nutter, a maniac, a genius, a monster, a demon, a god - but not a mere person. Again, this means his followers will exalt him, and his opponents fear him as someone who has gone insane.

In retrospect - or seen from the outside, this behavior just looks theatrical and silly, and we chuckle at it

[Gopher Gary]

In retrospect - or seen from the outside, this behavior just looks theatrical and silly, and we chuckle at it

Yeah, I really have a hard time understanding how anyone would think anything bad about it. 

[Jack]

China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.

The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.

It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.

Their problem is the way they treat their own.

Was discussing economics, not trying to find anything at all negative to say about China.

I was, too. How you treat your own affects your economy.

Maybe someone forgot to tell the economy.

How so? The Chinese economy is slowing down, according to some very recent reports.

The woman on the other side of my cube wall is a product developer who works directly with the company's Asian branches and factories overseas. Recently heard her on the phone having a fit about a late add to an import product line. She said China completely shuts down for the month of January and this year we can count February out too, so they're nuts if they think they're going to get that product in time. Your mention of recent reports reminded me of overhearing that. China's economy slows dramatically every Chinese new year. http://www.economist.com/news/china/21643229-growth-slowing-calendar-overstates-problem-lunar-eclipse China has experienced steady economic growth for decades, with extreme growth over the past fifteen years. Though it's true that growth is slowing, but slowing of growth is still growth, and not sure what point is being made about how people are treated as indicative of that. It's probably more indicative of the economic slowing of the countries that import their goods.

[Gopher Gary]

Though it's true that growth is slowing, but slowing of growth is still growth, and not sure what point is being made about how people are treated as indicative of that.

China's economy is slowing down because that's what happens when a workforce enters its teens. 

[odeon]

Because the internet told you so?

You're grossly overstating it. It's not like that, at all. There's no hate, not like that, but there's also no obsession. The US will always be a part of the news because it's so big, but what you call an obsession is more of an influence because of the size.

Yeah that's right, the internet told me so. I don't spend time in other countries so that's how I've gotten my impression about how people in other countries obsess on the US.

Well, your impression is wrong.

I don't see people so obsessed with China because of it's size. Maybe the internet isn't telling me everything I need to know, and I'm missing all the foreigners obsessed with Chinese pop culture and stupid tabloid level spew the average Chinese person doesn't even see in their own local news.

If there is a Chinese pop culture, it isn't very widespread outside the Chinese borders. AFAIK, most Western countries don't broadcast Chinese soaps.

Let's say I'm obsessed with Nike. I buy all their crap, I buy their stock, I watch all their commercials, I'm well read about their corporate leaders, and always up to date on the goings on of company infrastructure and changes. As frequently as I can, I absorb myself some Nike. Along with all that, I never have anything positive to say about Nike, I say they're a shit company, I bash their leaders, I mock the stars in their commercials, and gossip like a schoolgirl about every internal happening I can find out. Then someone comes along and says, just stop obsessing on Nike if you hate it so much, and I say, Nike will always be in the mall because it's so big, and it's not an obsession I'm just influenced by it's size. I can't get away from Nike because every time I go to the mall there it is. But okay, it's the fault of the US for being so big that everyday people from other countries think and talk about it so much. 

WTF are you on about? If this is supposed to be an analogy, it's failing miserably. It just isn't so.

But just for comparison, I had a chat with an American conference delegate over a beer, yesterday. He bashed his government to an extent I've not heard any European do. Go figure.

You'd be surprised by how Europeans mock themselves. I guess the internet is not telling you everything you need to know.

First you said people like that are uncommon. Period. And now I'm supposed to be surprised just how common it really is. 

You might want to go back and read it again. I was talking about Europeans bashing the US.

Sure that's fine, but I'm surprised that you really don't think tens of millions of immigrants in such a short time doesn't strain the existing system, at least for a while until it can adapt. It will actually adapt. 

I'm not sure why you're

Because I didn't understand your point.

I think it's pretty obvious that you are upset. What I don't know is what you are upset about, because I don't recognise the Europe you seem to be talking about. At all.

Oh, and if you're not saying what it is that was said that you are so upset about, then I can only shrug and move on. Someone is always going to be upset about something.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Nothing was actually said. I made a smart ass remark to Pappy about how foreigners get all wet in the panties thinking about thinking about the US collapsing, and you wanted to contradict me about that.

Because it's wrong. It's just not the case.

I think too many people where you live are watching Jerry Springer and eating Subway.

Bullshit. You think wrong. I have visited your country and can form an opinion. You should wait telling what my country is like until you've visited it.

I was just saying I'm not mad at you, and being honest that I might be a little more sensitive about obsessed foreigners than I normally would be.

Well, I am getting a bit annoyed. I've told you several times that you are talking out of your ass, albeit using a somewhat more delicate vocabulary, yet you either don't believe me or you simply ignore what I'm saying.

See, I have visited a number of countries, European and otherwise, many of them frequently enough to be able to form a reasonably informed opinion. I know people from these countries, some of whom have lived in more than one country in their lifetimes. But I just don't see it.

It's hard not to notice the US, considering its size and its influence, but that's a far cry from it being an obsession.

[odeon]

China is funding the war and that's the crux of our so-called debt. It's not a loan, it's the price they pay to keep their hands clean, as well as an investment in their own future economy; when it's said and done they'll be getting oil for the cheap.

The Chinese economy is not particularly stable either.

It's not particularly unstable either; just like the US isn't. China, while funding the war, they also focus on their own world image quickly becoming an attractive place for international tourism, and their economy has in fact improved greatly over the last thirty years. China is not only the worlds largest manufacturing economy, but also the largest exporter of goods, and the fastest growing consumer economy second only to the US.

Their problem is the way they treat their own.

Was discussing economics, not trying to find anything at all negative to say about China.

I was, too. How you treat your own affects your economy.

Maybe someone forgot to tell the economy.

How so? The Chinese economy is slowing down, according to some very recent reports.

The woman on the other side of my cube wall is a product developer who works directly with the company's Asian branches and factories overseas. Recently heard her on the phone having a fit about a late add to an import product line. She said China completely shuts down for the month of January and this year we can count February out too, so they're nuts if they think they're going to get that product in time. Your mention of recent reports reminded me of overhearing that. China's economy slows dramatically every Chinese new year. http://www.economist.com/news/china/21643229-growth-slowing-calendar-overstates-problem-lunar-eclipse China has experienced steady economic growth for decades, with extreme growth over the past fifteen years. Though it's true that growth is slowing, but slowing of growth is still growth, and not sure what point is being made about how people are treated as indicative of that. It's probably more indicative of the economic slowing of the countries that import their goods.

http://fortune.com/2015/01/21/china-economy-growth-slowdown/

[Gopher Gary]

This conversation is getting too big for me to give a crap about breaking apart the quotes. I don't think my impression about obsessed foreigners is wrong at all. Europe is saturated with American culture because america sells and that's what they want to buy, and my impression about it being an obsessive love/hate relationship comes directly from what people have to say about the US and just how little they have to say about people and issues in their own society. It's weird and creepy. 

[ZEGH8578]

In America people mass produce tv-series by their own free will - because it generates pissloads of money.
They sell the series to countries willing to buy them, and these countries get to fill up a big hole in the demand for entertainment.

It has then grown to become a norm.

It's not something we wake up in the morning going "Fuck Denmark! I want to watch some AMERICAN TV today! Fuck you too Finland! And you Slovakia, you can go fuck yourself!"

It's just "a norm", a self-feeding cycle. Stop Hollywood, and we have to deal with empty televisions and empty cinemas for a while, untill we slowly get the cogs rolling again.
Non-American interest in American TV is something that has often been brought up, by Americans, as an example of Europeans being totally obsessed with them.

There's another thing as well, you guys, Americans, are simply not used to watching foreign stuff, so I'll quickly explain how it works:
When I watch "Everybody loves Raymond" it's just that what I'm watching - it's not "Everybody loves that American guy, in America", it's just Raymond. Raymond is even a name over here. Raymond happens to speak English, with a nasal voice.
We don't sit around chanting "U-S-A!" whenever something American comes on tv, we just see people in stupid dramas.
Apart from American, British shows are very popular, and next to British, all of the obvious neighbors, in Norway, Swedish and Danish programs are popular.
Channels like "TVN" (guess what the N stands for) shows only Norwegian programming at least half the time.

Again, we don't get up in the morning going "SHIT! I LOVE/HATE AMERICA! Better some American entertainment on, so I can cry while I masturbate!", you guys just so happen to sell - we just so happen to not have to produce, by just buying it cheaply, so there we are.
If you guys were to stop, overnight, we wouldn't be missing America.

We would be missing 50% of our TV-series, regardless of their origin.

[Jack]

http://fortune.com/2015/01/21/china-economy-growth-slowdown/

Once again missed any point about the treatment. Reads like a lot of economic forecasting. There's probably no such thing as an economy that does nothing other than grow, so it probably doesn't take an economics degree to forecast they might have a recession in their future eventually. As to when or why that will happen, economist are definitely more fit to forecast that future than me. Very interesting though, they're already gearing up to blame the housing market and public consumerism. Economist said the same thing about the US without ever once pointing a finger at all the money spent on war, and if China experiences a recession in the near future wont be the least bit surprised if economist and the media blame housing and consumerism to general public of China while not a single finger is pointed at all the money that's been poured into the US. It's faulting the activities of the public sector to ignore what the government is doing.

[Gopher Gary]

In America people mass produce tv-series by their own free will - because it generates pissloads of money.
They sell the series to countries willing to buy them, and these countries get to fill up a big hole in the demand for entertainment.

It has then grown to become a norm.

It's not something we wake up in the morning going "Fuck Denmark! I want to watch some AMERICAN TV today! Fuck you too Finland! And you Slovakia, you can go fuck yourself!"

It's just "a norm", a self-feeding cycle. Stop Hollywood, and we have to deal with empty televisions and empty cinemas for a while, untill we slowly get the cogs rolling again.
Non-American interest in American TV is something that has often been brought up, by Americans, as an example of Europeans being totally obsessed with them.

There's another thing as well, you guys, Americans, are simply not used to watching foreign stuff, so I'll quickly explain how it works:
When I watch "Everybody loves Raymond" it's just that what I'm watching - it's not "Everybody loves that American guy, in America", it's just Raymond. Raymond is even a name over here. Raymond happens to speak English, with a nasal voice.
We don't sit around chanting "U-S-A!" whenever something American comes on tv, we just see people in stupid dramas.
Apart from American, British shows are very popular, and next to British, all of the obvious neighbors, in Norway, Swedish and Danish programs are popular.
Channels like "TVN" (guess what the N stands for) shows only Norwegian programming at least half the time.

Again, we don't get up in the morning going "SHIT! I LOVE/HATE AMERICA! Better some American entertainment on, so I can cry while I masturbate!", you guys just so happen to sell - we just so happen to not have to produce, by just buying it cheaply, so there we are.
If you guys were to stop, overnight, we wouldn't be missing America.

We would be missing 50% of our TV-series, regardless of their origin.

There's a whole lot more of America in Europe than just TV, but I do think it's a big part of the issue because I believe American tv is largely garbage. That's not what bother's me, it's all the negative projecting about the people of America that comes along with it. I agree it's become the norm, but I also think it's become the norm to generally dislike and even hate americans as a whole, and to think of all americans in terms of negative stereotypes being absorb from the brain rotting garbage that's being consumed.

[ZEGH8578]

The attention at America is a given. America is a very very active country, on the world stage. More than just mildly imperialistic, and quite present everywhere.

And you are indeed wrong about the America-hate. Many people STILL see America as this dream-land, where everything works out for everybody, where presidents are awesome, and kings and prime ministers belong to gay old fairy tales. The "anti-american" critic is not as common - out irl - as he is on the forums online, where he is loud and vocal about it.

America was much, much more hated back in the 70s, with the Vietnam war, than they are now. Norwegians still regard America as a top tourist destination for example, especially New York.
Personally, I would be so angsty in NY... :I
SO MANY PEOPLE! D:

[Gopher Gary]

The attention at America is a given. America is a very very active country, on the world stage. More than just mildly imperialistic, and quite present everywhere.

And you are indeed wrong about the America-hate. Many people STILL see America as this dream-land, where everything works out for everybody, where presidents are awesome, and kings and prime ministers belong to gay old fairy tales. The "anti-american" critic is not as common - out irl - as he is on the forums online, where he is loud and vocal about it.

America was much, much more hated back in the 70s, with the Vietnam war, than they are now. Norwegians still regard America as a top tourist destination for example, especially New York.
Personally, I would be so angsty in NY... :I
SO MANY PEOPLE! D:

Fuck you and your excuses, Zeg. I know on some level you think I'm stupid and sub-human.

Soon you'll have to come over here again :0
NATO and all that :0
Allies :0
Sure we hate your fucking guts, but hey! Europa + America is like = Our guns suddenly multiplied with four.
That's a good deal, regardless of your goddamn, hopeless retardedness, borderline-analphabetism, fascist tendencies, racism, colonialism and corrupt world exploitation!

[ZEGH8578]

Did I forget to add - I am one of those internet people.

Here I am!

On the internet - hating America!
Who am I? Surrounded by family members who love America, on most of my Norwegian side. My cousin has been working in Texas for years, he just recently returned home.

[Gopher Gary]

Did I forget to add - I am one of those internet people.

Here I am!

On the internet - hating America!
Who am I? Surrounded by family members who love America, on most of my Norwegian side. My cousin has been working in Texas for years, he just recently returned home.

Yeah okay, fine, it's only the people on the interwebs who hate Americans.