To austerity or to not austerity....

[McGiver]

The world is 50 trillion dollars in debt.
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock

But to whom are we indebted to?  I mean its all just made up currency which is backed by our belief that it is valuable.

Since the worldwide financial crisis of 2008 governments have been experimenting with austerity measures, which basically hurt the poor and redistributes wealth to the very rich.
Austerity, IMHO, is nothing more than a wealth grab by the rich meant to enslave the masses in democratic countries.

[skyblue1]

The world is 50 trillion dollars in debt.
http://www.economist.com/content/global_debt_clock

But to whom are we indebted to?  I mean its all just made up currency which is backed by our belief that it is valuable.

Since the worldwide financial crisis of 2008 governments have been experimenting with austerity measures, which basically hurt the poor and redistributes wealth to the very rich.
Austerity, IMHO, is nothing more than a wealth grab by the rich meant to enslave the masses in democratic countries.

Debt is more valuable than money

Without debt there would be no need for money

All that would be needed is gold, silver, salt or any other valuable commodity, for trade, if there was no debt.

[McGiver]

Are you suggesting debt by design? Who's interests would that serve?

[skyblue1]

Are you suggesting debt by design? Who's interests would that serve?

Thats it exactly

That would be the worlds major banks

Starting with the Bank of England, hundreds of years ago.

Its a plan thats working well.

[McGiver]

I'm not sure of these facts, exactly, but I read somewhere last year that a decade ago there were but a handful of countries that did not have a central (privately owned) bank.
Syria and Iraq were two of them, but American involvement changed that.
Now it is N Korea, Iran and one South American country....if my memory serves me well.
Can you hear the faint drumbeat of war?
And I wonder if the South American country was the one led by Hugo Chavez. Who recently died.

[Pyraxis]

I don't really understand the massive mutual debt of countries either and I don't keep debt in my personal life.

I can see from a startup company perspective there are times when it's to everyone's benefit that you borrow money, in order to increase the speed of growth. For example if your product goes viral and suddenly there's a much greater demand for it than you can supply with your current equipment.

So I guess that would be to monetize a factor (the spread of information) that was outside of everybody's control.

But the majority of borrowing doesn't fit that model. It's either on the intangible promise of growth, which is often made on false assumptions and never comes true, or it's to compensate for an unexpected disaster. Or I guess, like in the case of the USA government lately, it's out of fear.

[TheoK]

Yes, the value of money is only imaginary. Economy works just beacuse almost everyone acts like money had any real value. Pretty bizarre.

[Scrapheap]

Yes, the value of money is only imaginary. Economy works just beacuse almost everyone acts like money had any real value. Pretty bizarre.

We need to replace fiat currency with money that has REAL value, like silver certificates or something like that.

[McGiver]

Then government debt means nothing?

Then why in democratic countries do the poor vote for politicians who impose austerity measures on them under the lie that the deficit is bad.  Austerity is usually targeted against the needy.

[Pyraxis]

People don't always act in their own best interests. They trust well-spoken promises from dishonest people.

[McGiver]

Yes, the value of money is only imaginary. Economy works just beacuse almost everyone acts like money had any real value. Pretty bizarre.

We need to replace fiat currency with money that has REAL value, like silver certificates or something like that.

i suggest a cooperative where governments are voted out by the populous when they no longer represent the wishes of the majority.  And where labor fires the middle man (Walmart for example) and works directly with the manufacturer and the consumer.

Why do we need money?

[Pyraxis]

Cause it's more convenient than chickens.

A cooperative might work on a small scale, but theoretically it's what democracies have right now, a system where governmental representatives are voted out when they no longer represent the majority. The trouble, as I remember someone else here saying recently, is that you have to be a sleaze before you can rise far enough to even be noticed by the majority.

[Scrapheap]

Walmart = Satan's Five and Dime.

[El]

It's kind of interesting how the media has gotten the whole damn country freaked out about the national debt above all the other issues we were primarily worried about before.  The debt was there before.  Yet, your average joe on the street was more worried about the economy.

Kinda like how the gun control debt wandered into the forefront of everything.  Would never have happened if the media didn't pimp Sandy Hook (and I use the term "pimp" on purpose, as I think the way these things get covered makes more of them happen, which is kind of disgusting).

[TheoK]

The Bolsheviks in the media try to make people focus on everything but the things that are in the public interest