Author Topic: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"  (Read 5353 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline McGiver

  • Hetero sexist tragedy
  • Caretaker Admin
  • Postwhore Beyond The Pale
  • *****
  • Posts: 43309
  • Karma: 1341
  • Gender: Male
  • Do me.
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2013, 03:49:18 AM »
If I'm a single mother I can work two jobs (atminimum wage), work 50 hours per week and still live in poverty.  I would much rather live off disability and/or welfare and be home to raise/influence my children than work away from home and still live in poverty.

As someone who believes part of our tax dollars should be used to help the less fortunate, I have to say that there is something seriously with our country if it pays more for a single mom to be on welfare than it does for the single mom to work. Work is supposed to create a higher standard of living than welfare, not the other way around.

I blame capitalism practiced to its nth degree.  It is every leader of industry needing to satisfy the stockholders demands.  Yet these leaders are not innovative.  Their solution is outsourcing jobs and creating competition amongst labor....a race to the bottom. No sense of communal responsibility.  And strict adherence to the philosophy that greed is good.

Also, you see that there are many of these leaders today that were born with a silver spoon in their mouth.  They had all the opportunities in the world.  How can they empathize with those in poverty when they never had to struggle themselves?
Misunderstood.

Offline McGiver

  • Hetero sexist tragedy
  • Caretaker Admin
  • Postwhore Beyond The Pale
  • *****
  • Posts: 43309
  • Karma: 1341
  • Gender: Male
  • Do me.
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2013, 03:55:02 AM »
A balance that I am alarmed by us the current balance in the US between record corporate profits and 8% unemployment.
It used to be theorized that full employment 4%or less) was needed in order to generate buyers to keep this old consumer based economy working. 
Business does not care about the system.  Their loyalties are to profits, not borders.


I know this is a thread about disability 'claims' I think it's all connected.
Misunderstood.

Offline El

  • Unofficial Weird News Reporter of the Aspie Elite
  • News Box Slave
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 21926
  • Karma: 2615
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2013, 05:51:36 AM »
If I'm a single mother I can work two jobs (atminimum wage), work 50 hours per week and still live in poverty.  I would much rather live off disability and/or welfare and be home to raise/influence my children than work away from home and still live in poverty.

As someone who believes part of our tax dollars should be used to help the less fortunate, I have to say that there is something seriously with our country if it pays more for a single mom to be on welfare than it does for the single mom to work. Work is supposed to create a higher standard of living than welfare, not the other way around.

I blame capitalism practiced to its nth degree.  It is every leader of industry needing to satisfy the stockholders demands.  Yet these leaders are not innovative.  Their solution is outsourcing jobs and creating competition amongst labor....a race to the bottom. No sense of communal responsibility.  And strict adherence to the philosophy that greed is good.

Also, you see that there are many of these leaders today that were born with a silver spoon in their mouth.  They had all the opportunities in the world.  How can they empathize with those in poverty when they never had to struggle themselves?
*nodnod*  I heard it said once (someone on NPR or some article in a newspaper, probably) that one downside of the current structure vs. that in the 1950s and earlier (despite us getting *closer* to equal opportunity for people other than white men since then) is that "back in the day" there was an understanding that you were working for something where you'd be passing a legacy down- basically, that honor and morality regarding the work you were doing mattered.

Of course, I sorta doubt that was really usually the case even in earlier times, but hey, I'm cynical.

And, again, exactly- it's cheaper to outsource labor, so labor gets outsourced.  On the one hand, if this stopped happening, the price of good would probably rise.  On the other hand, more people in America would be able to get their basic needs met by working.

Quote
Lower-skill jobs that used to be for high school kids are now filled with workers across all ages- there's more competition to work in a damn grocery store nowadays than people even a decade ago would have believed possible.  Wages aren't rising as fast as the cost of living is.

This is true, and its an excuse to get angry and try to change things. But its not an excuse to give up.
What do you propose we do, Rage?  What do you propose otherwise-candidates for disability do?

If I'm a single mother I can work two jobs (atminimum wage), work 50 hours per week and still live in poverty.  I would much rather live off disability and/or welfare and be home to raise/influence my children than work away from home and still live in poverty.

As someone who believes part of our tax dollars should be used to help the less fortunate, I have to say that there is something seriously with our country if it pays more for a single mom to be on welfare than it does for the single mom to work. Work is supposed to create a higher standard of living than welfare, not the other way around.
Exactly.  And there is.  (I'm assuming you left out the word "wrong.")

Also- the single mom in the example would be in poverty even without childcare factored in.  Factor childcare in, and all of a sudden she's almost working for nothing until her kids go to school.  Believe me, I see this often enough- it's very fucking real, and it's a real problem.

A balance that I am alarmed by us the current balance in the US between record corporate profits and 8% unemployment.
It used to be theorized that full employment 4%or less) was needed in order to generate buyers to keep this old consumer based economy working. 
Business does not care about the system.  Their loyalties are to profits, not borders.


I know this is a thread about disability 'claims' I think it's all connected.
Well, take "record corporate profits" with something of a grain of salt, because depending on how the data is juggled, you may not properly be accounting for inflation and/or the fact that corporations are just plain BIGGER so the numbers are also bigger and would be even if profit per worker was the same.  That said, yes, multinational corporations are (pardon the pun) a giant problem.  Monopolies used to be illegal.  There's a damn REASON they used to be illegal.  Now, we just have ways of sorta-kinda masking when things are monopolies.  When was the last time you heard about any "trusts" being "busted?"  There's an ever-widening gap between rich and poor in America.  Social mobility is more and more of a lie.  It *is* getting worse.

And you're actually talking about some of the issues I hoped would be raised.  It *is* all connected, and I wonder what on earth the solution even COULD be, let alone WILL be.

There's other factors, too- things are just plain more automated nowadays (and there goes factory jobs even without outsourcing- hell, there go taxi drivers, in a decade or two, with smart cars- and I'm sure that's just scratching the surface).  Not only is high school expected, now college is expected (even if it really does nothing more than high school for employability, and adds crazy-debt in the process).  The population *is* aging, and that will get worse before it gets better (the baby boomer generation had, I believe, higher fertility rates than nowadays- thank god- but they're the generation that's hitting retirement age around now).

The current *expected* employment and income structure just plain isn't sustainable, in my opinion, even if all the other bullshit was removed from the equation (and I know I'm not alone in thinking this).  So, even if the conglomocorps and corruption and all that jazz got taken away, we're STILL left with the question of how the economy should look in the future- and how it WILL look.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 05:53:16 AM by PMS Elle »
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Offline McGiver

  • Hetero sexist tragedy
  • Caretaker Admin
  • Postwhore Beyond The Pale
  • *****
  • Posts: 43309
  • Karma: 1341
  • Gender: Male
  • Do me.
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2013, 07:43:42 AM »
Good stuff. I have fun. This is fun.

The future is going to go one of two ways in my opinion:

1.) it's going to be a Walmart world where everybody is just eking by and making so little money that they have to shop at the company store e cause of their low wages and the stores own prices.  Government is going to fill the the healthcare and welfare gap.
In essence we will all be slaves in a George Orwellan state.  The drugs will keep us from thinking about it or realizing its true.

2.) there will be a labor revolution.  Many bricks will be thrown many windows smashed.  Near anarchy.  Where labor kicks out the ALL POWERFUL middle man and unions come back strong.  Not unions in the traditional sense where they collect dues, are guarduous of their territory and  use collective bargaining to lift themselves up.  I see it more as a collective where they democratically select their leaders and choose how the wealth is redistributed (ideally they would opt first to create more jobs and put more people into middle class lives).
In the second scenario I am not talking about completely eradicating classism, because classism will always exist.  I am talking about the masses holding the few elite to accountability.  I'm guessing a push towards representative communism.
Unfortunately, this system would require a well informed, well intended populace.  I don't think most can be arsed, so I am leaning more towards the company store.


As always, i know what I just meant to write and what I meant to communicate.  Ad I refuse to proofread entire I submit.  Hahahaha
Misunderstood.

Offline RageBeoulve

  • Super sand nigger
  • Elder
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 16783
  • Karma: 927
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2013, 09:56:24 AM »
Quote
What do you propose we do, Rage?  What do you propose otherwise-candidates for disability do?

That, missy. That is a fantastic question. Lemme think about it.
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline El-Presidente

  • Caliph of the Aspie Elite
  • Modulator
  • Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 1706
  • Karma: 177
  • Gender: Male
  • I love kitties! Fluffy kitties are nice!!
    • ASD Community
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2013, 09:56:32 AM »
I'm told being morbidly obese is a disability. IMO those lazy pigs should be killed and harvested for their blubber.

Offline RageBeoulve

  • Super sand nigger
  • Elder
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 16783
  • Karma: 927
  • Gender: Male
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2013, 09:59:10 AM »
I'm told being morbidly obese is a disability. IMO those lazy pigs should be killed and harvested for their blubber.

Indeed. Eating too much and not getting any activity is not a disability. Much like the woman who sued mcdonalds for making her fat.
"I’m fearless in my heart.
They will always see that in my eyes.
I am the passion; I am the warfare.
I will never stop...
always constant, accurate, and intense."

  - Steve Vai, "The Audience is Listening"

Offline El

  • Unofficial Weird News Reporter of the Aspie Elite
  • News Box Slave
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 21926
  • Karma: 2615
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2013, 06:40:53 PM »
Good stuff. I have fun. This is fun.

The future is going to go one of two ways in my opinion:

1.) it's going to be a Walmart world where everybody is just eking by and making so little money that they have to shop at the company store e cause of their low wages and the stores own prices.  Government is going to fill the the healthcare and welfare gap.
In essence we will all be slaves in a George Orwellan state.  The drugs will keep us from thinking about it or realizing its true.

2.) there will be a labor revolution.  Many bricks will be thrown many windows smashed.  Near anarchy.  Where labor kicks out the ALL POWERFUL middle man and unions come back strong.  Not unions in the traditional sense where they collect dues, are guarduous of their territory and  use collective bargaining to lift themselves up.  I see it more as a collective where they democratically select their leaders and choose how the wealth is redistributed (ideally they would opt first to create more jobs and put more people into middle class lives).
In the second scenario I am not talking about completely eradicating classism, because classism will always exist.  I am talking about the masses holding the few elite to accountability.  I'm guessing a push towards representative communism.
Unfortunately, this system would require a well informed, well intended populace.  I don't think most can be arsed, so I am leaning more towards the company store.


As always, i know what I just meant to write and what I meant to communicate.  Ad I refuse to proofread entire I submit.  Hahahaha
There's aspects of each already happening.  I wonder if perhaps long-term we'll go back and forth between one then the other.

I also kinda wonder if we'll expand off-world.  I may or may not be watching too much scifi, but, honestly, I think we're fucking the planet up so badly that we're going to otherwise really, really trash our lifestyles if not kill ourselves off totally.
it is well known that PMS Elle is evil.
I think you'd fit in a 12" or at least a 16" firework mortar
You win this thread because that's most unsettling to even think about.

Offline McGiver

  • Hetero sexist tragedy
  • Caretaker Admin
  • Postwhore Beyond The Pale
  • *****
  • Posts: 43309
  • Karma: 1341
  • Gender: Male
  • Do me.
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2013, 07:03:39 PM »
I've been thinking about adopting green pictures as one of my main political principles.

Yes, it seems life, economy, politics, etc seem to be cyclical.  Imagine a pendulum as it swings.  Once it gets to a certain point it begins to correct and swing the opposite direction.

I personally think we are currently too conservative. Way too.  Some would disagree.  What do you think?
Misunderstood.

Offline Pyraxis

  • Werewolf Wrangler of the Aspie Elite
  • Caretaker Admin
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 16680
  • Karma: 1433
  • aka Daria
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2013, 07:43:40 PM »
I think I'm sick of everything being an either-or between conservative and liberal. Name specific issues.
You'll never self-actualize the subconscious canopy of stardust with that attitude.

Offline Queen Victoria

  • Ruler of Aspie Universe
  • Elder
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 28244
  • Karma: 2805
  • Gender: Female
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2013, 09:03:20 PM »
I'm told being morbidly obese is a disability. IMO those lazy pigs should be killed and harvested for their blubber.

As someone who is morbidly obese I agree that it is a disability.  It can be a form of OCD or a response to another emotional disorder.  It does limit my life and while I try to lose weight, it's not as simple as turning off a switch.  Although I don't have any statistics on hand to cite, I believe the success rate in losing and keeping off weight is smaller than the success rate for stopping a drug addiction.
A good monarch is a treasure. A good politician is an oxymoron.

My brain is both uninhibited and uninhabited.

:qv:

Offline El-Presidente

  • Caliph of the Aspie Elite
  • Modulator
  • Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 1706
  • Karma: 177
  • Gender: Male
  • I love kitties! Fluffy kitties are nice!!
    • ASD Community
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2013, 12:44:26 AM »
I'm told being morbidly obese is a disability. IMO those lazy pigs should be killed and harvested for their blubber.

As someone who is morbidly obese I agree that it is a disability.  It can be a form of OCD or a response to another emotional disorder.  It does limit my life and while I try to lose weight, it's not as simple as turning off a switch.  Although I don't have any statistics on hand to cite, I believe the success rate in losing and keeping off weight is smaller than the success rate for stopping a drug addiction.

You IRL or Queen Victoria? I know that later in life Queenie had a 50+ inch waist as a pair of her pants survive to this day. Also she was 5ft nothing so must have been almost spherical.

Offline El-Presidente

  • Caliph of the Aspie Elite
  • Modulator
  • Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 1706
  • Karma: 177
  • Gender: Male
  • I love kitties! Fluffy kitties are nice!!
    • ASD Community
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2013, 12:53:44 AM »
I'm told being morbidly obese is a disability. IMO those lazy pigs should be killed and harvested for their blubber.

As someone who is morbidly obese I agree that it is a disability.  It can be a form of OCD or a response to another emotional disorder.  It does limit my life and while I try to lose weight, it's not as simple as turning off a switch.  Although I don't have any statistics on hand to cite, I believe the success rate in losing and keeping off weight is smaller than the success rate for stopping a drug addiction.

I would agree it is a disability when a result of a medical condition, a genuine diagnosed condition. But the huge increase in the ranks of the obese in recent years indicates to me that the majority should not be permitted to rely on their fecklessness for state handouts.

Offline Jack

  • Reiterative Utterance of the Aspie Elite
  • Elder
  • Maniacal Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 14550
  • Karma: 0
  • You don't know Jack.
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2013, 04:54:54 AM »
Have never heard of obesity being a disibility.

Offline Parts

  • The Mad
  • Caretaker Admin
  • Almighty Postwhore
  • *****
  • Posts: 37470
  • Karma: 3062
  • Gender: Female
  • Who are you?
Re: "Unfit fot work- The startling rise of disability in America"
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2013, 07:14:34 AM »
I think I'm sick of everything being an either-or between conservative and liberal. Name specific issues.

Me too,  I think most people are somewhere in the middle
"Eat it up.  Wear it out.  Make it do or do without." 

'People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.'
George Bernard Shaw