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Author Topic: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.  (Read 4432 times)

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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #105 on: March 23, 2013, 10:23:09 PM »
Didn't see this until now. Since I made some of the quoted comments, I felt I should clarify them.

Re bestiality: this was a while ago but I'm pretty sure I meant in the context of posting pictures. Calling someone a dogfucker is, as mentioned, not nice but I fail to see how it would violate anything. It might be defamatory but that sort of thing is very hard to prove. MLA might know but he is no longer here.

As for the rules of this site, we do need to follow the Hostgator TOS, which means that we need to follow the applicable laws in the states of Texas and Florida, but this is an internet message board and the laws that we can break against are about publishing content. In other words, we won't be able to engage in bestiality but we might post pictures of it, and that would violate the TOS.

Paedophilia and copyrighted material would be my greatest concerns, however. Both could get us shut down.

As for other rules, I've pointed out more than once that if your objective is to harm the site, you won't be here for long.

Marx was stupid enough to post pictures, illegal content, which was the direct reason for his ban. That he tried to make it look as if Anton had posted them, which was just as stupid. He also made veiled threats, which didn't help his case.

Combine those and there's no reason to limit the consequences to harsh words. He was an idiot.

That was the reason why when I saw Jack's saying I had broken the rules around this (and as facts), I did not do a "catch me if you can" approach to it. I thought "No, I'm pretty sure that I haven't BUT Jack is stating it as fact not opinion. Maybe I HAVE done or said something that "crosses the line" of the rules.

On a site like this that means either endangering the sites's existence, endangering the members of the site or the accessibility/usability of the site. Breaking rules and in respect to this issue meant breaking laws and endangering the site's existence (from my reading) because it was not endangering the membership (like say if I was hacking the site for personal details on members), and it was not making the site completely useable (like spamming shit out of the forum).

What is left is endangering the site risking it get shut down by the hosts as a result of potential law breaking. THIS is what I had thought the rules I was being told I knew i had broken...and was going to have others allow me to stay on the basis of good standing. (So fucking out of character for me to do this, that I still can't get my head around it)

But what had I done or said to break TOS? My instinct was to say 'Nothing" but Jack seemed pretty sure and more so that I would be given leniency. I was not happy having this kind of character assassination go unaccounted. BUT Maybe Jack was right. Maybe Jack knew something else and was going to back the claims with something substantial? No, Jack was just throwing it out there unfounded and wanted to not back a thing. no reason for saying anything but potentially accusing  Me and perhaps others of potentially risking the site.....and not caring enough to own their actions.

I let Jack know IF this was the case I would ask for my account deletion, to which I got something that to me sounded like "No don't do that because though I have accused you of being deceptive and breaking the rules knowingly, and said you  will accept favouritism" just accept the favouritism or cover up, because I like you". No I don't actually like misuse of power nor authority. Never have. I like rules and I like them to stay and be consistent and inflexible. I am Aspie. I don't like people short cutting or circumventing through sucking up or greasing palms or being more popular. Never have. So therefore if this was happening and I was going to be a party to such, I would fall on my sword.

I investigated things. I was a lot less confident when  started looking at the TOS and the Laws governing them than when I started. Jack may not have known when she made her pronouncements but what if there was "actually" something in it? I was a little concern. It was a bit Twilight Zone-ish. Like seeing if I could find a big stick to be beaten with. Finally I had all facts and able to line all ducks up.

There was nothing in what Jack said. Absolutely nothing. My concerns were completely misplaced. By no reading would anything I have done in this respect served to place the site at risk or broken rules. Of course Jack changes the goal posts and falls back to it being all jut her opinion and what she understood the rules to mean (not that she explained this in any way what her understanding of the rules were) and that I was doing what I knew was unacceptable forum discussion. I busted that open too and that seems to be really more her view than the forum as a whole.

Just disappointed in her really.

Sure you know you have, and you will likely be given patience in the matter as a long standing member, and maybe you should. Not saying you should be banned; in fact, don't know that marx should have been either. Never really understood where the lines of these rules lie. More intersted in the thoughts of the admin who banned him.
I am the first member here to call for Marx being banned.

Marx fabricated evidence in an attempted frame up of Alfonso with the intent of getting Alfonso banned. The fact that the scumbag planted evidence with that intent is a great reason to ban the POS IMO.

As far as references to bestiality go  :doggy: does not get anyone banned and neither did calling Duke Nukem a pig fucker.

Actually I had forgotten about Duke. Yes does actually solidify further against the claim of what is unacceptable discussion for the forum.  I never saw the specific "evidence" but more than happy I did not. The same went for Bruce. That WILL get the site shut down in EXACTLY the same way :doggy: WON'T.

I agree with you entirely.

Have said all there is to say about it. These are my thoughts and they wont change. Fall on your own sword, or not; claim it was fine and all the reasons why; it doesn't really matter. </endfaggyjack>

Yup you pretty much have. You were wrong on each account. No biggie.

Again I really do not care for the Bestiality accusations and such, there was an amount of claim backing and rule interpretation and reasonable assessment that can be done to show it one way or another. Either way that was going to show you were completely right in which case I would have apologised to the membership for putting them in jeopardy or that it was was half of one and half of the other and depending how lineball it was, I would have stayed or left, or there was nothing in it.

None of that really matters to me. That you have this really shitty view of what kind of person I am , and what I would seek to wriggle out of and why, does actually matter. I am interested on what basis you ever thought this way of me.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

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Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Jack

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #106 on: March 23, 2013, 11:31:20 PM »

None of that really matters to me. That you have this really shitty view of what kind of person I am , and what I would seek to wriggle out of and why, does actually matter. I am interested on what basis you ever thought this way of me.

Actually don't have a shitty view of the person you are at all, and don't consider your actions to be an enormous deal. The main reason being that your actions weren't directed at me. Don't really care how you treat other people, in my view of the person you are to me. People can bring up every crummy thing said in the history of this site, and it won't distract from the current issue being discussed. I have an opinion about cartman's treatment in being attacked as a pedo and dog fucker, and know it's not my place to determine if it's a bannable offense. My opinion is not wrong, as neither is yours. You've said what you think, I've said what I think, and we've both made it clear that other's reactions to our thoughts don't have any affect on our thoughts. So, are we okay?

Offline odeon

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #107 on: March 24, 2013, 01:47:41 AM »
It should go without saying that if marx reregisters and we spot him, he is out again.
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Offline TA

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #108 on: March 24, 2013, 01:55:01 AM »
It should go without saying that if marx reregisters and we spot him, he is out again.

So the de facto blacklist has another name on it besides buttcoffee?
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Offline odeon

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #109 on: March 24, 2013, 01:57:38 AM »
It should go without saying that if marx reregisters and we spot him, he is out again.

So the de facto blacklist has another name on it besides buttcoffee?

Everyone who we have banned is on that list.
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Offline TA

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #110 on: March 24, 2013, 02:00:01 AM »
It should go without saying that if marx reregisters and we spot him, he is out again.

So the de facto blacklist has another name on it besides buttcoffee?

Everyone who we have banned is on that list.

All bans before this were before my time and the only other two I know of are Pea and BC, and I know with  most forums, administrators are not at liberty to say who is on the banlist.
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Offline odeon

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #111 on: March 24, 2013, 02:07:15 AM »
There's no official list. We haven't banned all that many people.
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #112 on: March 24, 2013, 02:48:37 AM »

None of that really matters to me. That you have this really shitty view of what kind of person I am , and what I would seek to wriggle out of and why, does actually matter. I am interested on what basis you ever thought this way of me.

Actually don't have a shitty view of the person you are at all, and don't consider your actions to be an enormous deal. The main reason being that your actions weren't directed at me. Don't really care how you treat other people, in my view of the person you are to me. People can bring up every crummy thing said in the history of this site, and it won't distract from the current issue being discussed. I have an opinion about cartman's treatment in being attacked as a pedo and dog fucker, and know it's not my place to determine if it's a bannable offense. My opinion is not wrong, as neither is yours. You've said what you think, I've said what I think, and we've both made it clear that other's reactions to our thoughts don't have any affect on our thoughts. So, are we okay?

Its fine though, Jack, to say opinion is opinion, but when the opinions are quantifiable accusations, then they are more than just a subjective preference. This seems to be what you are saying. Its all just subjective so why allow it objective scrutiny?
If you were hypothetically accusing someone of a crime and they were deemed to have been in jail, half a country away, at the time, then you do not get to say "Well it is just my opinion they did it and that is not going to change - so believe what you want".
Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. I think Butterflies tried this in one of her callouts on me and it looked real disingenuous.

Now you could say "I was really trying to just say I don't think Cartman deserved the animosity" OR "I just wanted to say that I think that the difference between pedophilia and bestiality is negligible" OR "I don't think Marx should be banned"

You didn't. This is not about crummy things said on the board or subjective experience.
You stated that I was willfully and willingly crossing the line and breaking the rules and that I would get favourable treatment for doing so. You also inferred that I was trying to get around the rules by using legal semantics. All of this has been shown otherwise. There were no rules broken therefore no knowledge of crossing the line into rule breaking territory or needing to use semantics to wiggle out of responsibility.
YES, that was wrong. Objectively wrong. That was against your claim. You did not back your claim, you just made accusations and then called them inflexible opinion.

I have asked you why you would take these types of positions about me (as to what I would be prepared to own up to or be honest about or wimp out of and so on) and I contest that not only are these things not me but have asked why you imagine that they seemed to you like things I would do. I have judged that kind of attitude (the attitude off a person who would not be prepared to own up to or be honest about or wimp out of and so on) as shitty.
You say "I don't think you have a shitty attitude." Great BUT you deemed I would do these shitty things....WHY?
I am not the person who would and have not got any form for doing this, so why?
You may say it is subjective and just your opinion. Great. So subjectively why do you think I would?
You may say "People say crummy things on the Board. Fine. But I never have said anything that I can see that would give grounding to suggest I would have these shitty, wimpy, weak vales....so why?

You see where I am coming from? Are we good? I still do not know why you said what you said.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Jack

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #113 on: March 24, 2013, 04:58:56 AM »
Sorry, for even getting into this with you, Sir. I'm not hypothetically accusing someone of a crime. Am saying that's exactly what you did; you said someone fucks dogs and fucking dogs is a crime. Yes, odeon has made it clear this is not a bannable offense; this reaction toward your actions was expected and included as such in my previously stated opinion. I still think you crossed the line, and if you're going to insist that means I think you're shitty, wimpy, weak, or an all-around bad person in general, then there's nothing I can do other than say it's simply not true of what I think. I don't thin you're a bad person. It does work this way, me believing what I want. I believe accusing members of bestiality is out of line, but if you think it's acceptable then just keep doing it. Won't think any less of you as a person, until you do it to me. As for your last question, yes, we are good. Still don't know why you said what you said either.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #114 on: March 24, 2013, 05:05:06 AM »
Sorry, for even getting into this with you, Sir. I'm not hypothetically accusing someone of a crime. Am saying that's exactly what you did; you said someone fucks dogs and fucking dogs is a crime. Yes, odeon has made it clear this is not a bannable offense; this reaction toward your actions was expected and included as such in my previously stated opinion. I still think you crossed the line, and if you're going to insist that means I think you're shitty, wimpy, weak, or an all-around bad person in general, then there's nothing I can do other than say it's simply not true of what I think. I don't thin you're a bad person. It does work this way, me believing what I want. I believe accusing members of bestiality is out of line, but if you think it's acceptable then just keep doing it. Won't think any less of you as a person, until you do it to me. As for your last question, yes, we are good. Still don't know why you said what you said either.

OK then find me that accusation at least

Am saying that's exactly what you did; you said someone fucks dogs and fucking dogs is a crime.

Hell if you will not back any claim thus far then at the very LEAST show me where i said Alfonso fucks dogs. If this is the crux of your whole argument that I said he fucks dogs....find where i said he did.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Jack

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #115 on: March 24, 2013, 05:25:23 AM »
Have already quoted that, Sir, and it's not the crux of the argument. Am sure this will prompt a lengthy response all about how 'I read he fucks dogs' and 'yes I'm creating a rumor but not making it up' doesn't really mean you said he fucks dogs. You'll no doubt get the last word in this, because you will continue to insist my pov is wrong and I'll continue to insist your actions were wrong. Tell me some more how you're in the right. I'll still think it was wrong but I'm tired of being a fag and reapeating it, so wont say it anymore.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #116 on: March 24, 2013, 05:36:40 AM »
I'm not hypothetically accusing someone of a crime. Am saying that's exactly what you did; you said someone fucks dogs and fucking dogs is a crime.
OK then find me that accusation at least

Am saying that's exactly what you did; you said someone fucks dogs and fucking dogs is a crime.

Hell if you will not back any claim thus far then at the very LEAST show me where i said Alfonso fucks dogs.[/quote]

I read he fucks dogs' and 'yes I'm creating a rumor but not making it up' doesn't really mean you said he fucks dogs.

You see the problem here Jack? You see why I am more than a little adamant that you have not backed a thing you have accused me of? You see why when you accuse and then don't back it, it is not me just being difficult or having a different opinion?
Above you see clearly
"that's exactly what you did".........except "doesn't really mean you said he fucks dogs". Where is the opinion and where is the fact? Are you stating these accusations as fact or opinion?

So what is the crux of the argument

Me knowing I did break the rules?
Me getting favoured treatment by Admin over infringements of the rules?
Me knowingly stepping over the line and not owning up to it?
Me using unacceptable for discussion subjects for the board?
Me accusing Cartman of fucking dogs?

^^^^ This is you Jack. These are accusations you have made at me. You know this right?

So....being that it was not about this (and for some reason you though to throw these issues around for some reasons - as yet unknown) what IS the crux of the argument. Please make it (without throwing more superfluous accusations at me...if these accusations above were not the crux of the argument)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 05:43:13 AM by Al Swearengen »
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline Jack

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #117 on: March 24, 2013, 05:47:54 AM »
Yes, I think that's exactly what you did. I think your words are saying he fucks dogs. Just like you've understood my words to be saying you've broken the law, you've broken the tos, or you're a bad person for saying he fucks dogs. Yes, I do see the problem here.

Offline Jack

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #118 on: March 24, 2013, 05:55:24 AM »
Sorry, missed the part you added. The crux of the arguement is I think you crossed the line and were out of order with the dog fucking, and you don't. This is what I understand this arguement to be about.

Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Marx fabricated screen shots to get Alfonso banned.
« Reply #119 on: March 24, 2013, 06:35:20 AM »
Sorry, missed the part you added. The crux of the arguement is I think you crossed the line and were out of order with the dog fucking, and you don't. This is what I understand this arguement to be about.

No Jack.

1. Crossed what line? Acceptable discussions? No problem there (ie the Duke teasing of past joined in by many members and the moral compass thread I showed which was well recieved) Breaking rules? Nope, not close. Breaking Laws? Not really much difference between breaking laws and breaking rules. Breaking rules will tend to be the same thing but in lineball calls, erring on the side of caution.

Tell me the line is not just, not what Jack likes. Please.

2. Let's suppose that what you wrote is right. Let's suppose. Why would you have gone down the path of saying shit like
Sure you know you have, and you will likely be given patience in the matter as a long standing member
Don't really expect you to admit you might have stepped over the line a little.
Crap,....Talking about the rules of this site and how they're enforced. Save the legal semantics for the admins.
I'm not hypothetically accusing someone of a crime. Am saying that's exactly what you did; you said someone fucks dogs and fucking dogs is a crime.
... doesn't really mean you said he fucks dogs.
I don't think you would, would you? If it was simply personal taste/preference/opinion you MAY have PM'ed me and said "Les do we really need to go there?" OR you could have posted online and said 'Can you guys stop with those references and implications of Alfonso having sex with dogs." To which i might have replied as "Sure Jack, no worries, I did a couple of days ago but the thread moved on and I am not revisiting it. It was just funny seeing years ago someone wrote that about him. Meh, no biggie"

You didn't though. Did you Jack?

Would like to know where you ARE coming from and the crux of it because I do not think this looks like how someone would act on things if it was simply personal opinion on it. Bit more involved somehow and the shots at my character were a little bit left field.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap