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Author Topic: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID  (Read 1613 times)

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Offline odeon

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2006, 07:19:22 AM »

I have no problem with police being armed; it's the general public that I worry about.

Oh, how nice! You don't think there are any rotten eggs amongst the cops?

There is a screening process before you can become a cop. No such thing exists for the general public.
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Offline McGiver

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2006, 07:20:57 AM »

I have no problem with police being armed; it's the general public that I worry about.

Oh, how nice! You don't think there are any rotten eggs amongst the cops?

There is a screening process before you can become a cop. No such thing exists for the general public.

yes there is.

there is a screening process and a waiting period before you can purchase a fire arm legally.
Misunderstood.

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2006, 07:30:28 AM »


There is a screening process before you can become a cop. No such thing exists for the general public.

The greatest idiots won't get through it but sadists with a little over average social skills will. Good for you if you never met a bad cop.

Offline Nomaken

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2006, 07:34:19 AM »
Something I really dislike is when people ignore that in order for cops to enforce their duties they sometimes need to be a bit of an asshole.  Some people prefer to ignore that reality and they end up supporting measures attempting to fix that unsolvable problem, which don't work, cost money, and then they blame the institution.
And as always, these are simply my worthless opinions.
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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2006, 07:43:15 AM »
Something I really dislike is when people ignore that in order for cops to enforce their duties they sometimes need to be a bit of an asshole.  Some people prefer to ignore that reality and they end up supporting measures attempting to fix that unsolvable problem, which don't work, cost money, and then they blame the institution.

I don't mind cops being that to scums, but so many cops are that to people just because they can get away with it.

Offline odeon

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2006, 07:57:34 AM »


There is a screening process before you can become a cop. No such thing exists for the general public.

The greatest idiots won't get through it but sadists with a little over average social skills will. Good for you if you never met a bad cop.

Are you against stopping the nut cases, then?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Offline odeon

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2006, 08:00:23 AM »
There is a screening process before you can become a cop. No such thing exists for the general public.

yes there is.

there is a screening process and a waiting period before you can purchase a fire arm legally.

Will Freund? The kids at Columbine? The guy shooting folks from the trunk of his (customized) car in Washington? Mark Chapman?

I see what you mean.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2006, 08:35:55 AM »


Are you against stopping the nut cases, then?

You can never stop them totally. That's the problem. You can either have just the police nut cases running around armed or you can have citizens who can defend themselves against police nut cases. Both are bad, but, in my opinion, a totally defenseless public is the greatest evil.

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2006, 08:40:03 AM »

Will Freund? The kids at Columbine? The guy shooting folks from the trunk of his (customized) car in Washington? Mark Chapman?

I see what you mean.

A few in that huge country with those social tensions. And some of the killers, like Freund, were aspies, who in Sweden and most of Europe would have been totally defenseless themselves. I don't feel sorry for bullies being killed or mutilated. Totally innocent getting killed is bad, but it's not on a disastrious level. And the bullies just got what they deserved.

Offline odeon

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2006, 11:50:19 AM »

Will Freund? The kids at Columbine? The guy shooting folks from the trunk of his (customized) car in Washington? Mark Chapman?

I see what you mean.

A few in that huge country with those social tensions. And some of the killers, like Freund, were aspies, who in Sweden and most of Europe would have been totally defenseless themselves. I don't feel sorry for bullies being killed or mutilated. Totally innocent getting killed is bad, but it's not on a disastrious level. And the bullies just got what they deserved.

A few? I listed a few, but there are many, many more. And we are not talking about bullies being killed here. We're talking about bullies killing innocent people.

Why do you suppose that these things tend to happen in the US, where they have liberal gun laws, rather than in Europe where the gun laws as a rule are far more strict?
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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2006, 12:01:10 PM »

A few? I listed a few, but there are many, many more.


As I said, 11000 of 300 millions is 11 of 300000. That's relatively few, even if each incident is a tragedy for everyone involved.

Quote from: odeon
And we are not talking about bullies being killed here. We're talking about bullies killing innocent people.


I think, unfortunately, that we're talking about both. Weren't Freund and the guys at Columbine at least both bullies and victims at the same time?


Quote from: odeon

Why do you suppose that these things tend to happen in the US, where they have liberal gun laws, rather than in Europe where the gun laws as a rule are far more strict?


They could happen in Switzerland, where guns are almost as easy to get hold of, since there is a rifle in almost every home and the license is just a formality or has been until some years ago, but they haven't. The ease of getting hold of a gun is part of the explanation, but it's not the whole explanation. It's more of an attitude problem. The Swiss don't have a "cowboy" attitude to their guns. They could have happened in Sweden before the 1930s, but they didn't either. Guns were totally free here until 1927 and the licensing became mandatory first 1934.

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2006, 12:59:39 PM »
There is a screening process before you can become a cop. No such thing exists for the general public.

yes there is.

there is a screening process and a waiting period before you can purchase a fire arm legally.

Will Freund? The kids at Columbine? The guy shooting folks from the trunk of his (customized) car in Washington? Mark Chapman?

I see what you mean.
key word: legally


and as litigious has pointed out SEVERAL times, even in countries with tough gun control laws, the criminal mind still has a way to get ahold of a firearm.
Misunderstood.

Offline odeon

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2006, 01:01:19 PM »

A few? I listed a few, but there are many, many more.


As I said, 11000 of 300 millions is 11 of 300000. That's relatively few, even if each incident is a tragedy for everyone involved.

That's more than in countries with more restrictive gun laws. And since you're splitting hairs, allow me to do the same. First of all, it was not 300 mil, it was between 280 and 290 at the time. Second, you're only counting deaths. Quite a few people survived Columbine, for example, but not all unscathed.

Quote
Quote from: odeon
And we are not talking about bullies being killed here. We're talking about bullies killing innocent people.


I think, unfortunately, that we're talking about both. Weren't Freund and the guys at Columbine at least both bullies and victims at the same time?

You're splitting hairs. Their targets were innocent.

Quote
Quote from: odeon

Why do you suppose that these things tend to happen in the US, where they have liberal gun laws, rather than in Europe where the gun laws as a rule are far more strict?


They could happen in Switzerland, where guns are almost as easy to get hold of, since there is a rifle in almost every home and the license is just a formality or has been until some years ago, but they haven't. The ease of getting hold of a gun is part of the explanation, but it's not the whole explanation. It's more of an attitude problem. The Swiss don't have a "cowboy" attitude to their guns. They could have happened in Sweden before the 1930s, but they didn't either. Guns were totally free here until 1927 and the licensing became mandatory first 1934.

But they are NOT happening in Switzerland.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2006, 01:22:01 PM »

That's more than in countries with more restrictive gun laws. And since you're splitting hairs, allow me to do the same. First of all, it was not 300 mil, it was between 280 and 290 at the time. Second, you're only counting deaths. Quite a few people survived Columbine, for example, but not all unscathed.


OK, say 11 dead out of 280000. And maybe 3-4 mutilated. Still not outrageous, since much more people die or get hurt for life by car accidents or eating the wrong food. We all die in the end, and getting your brains blown out mightn't be worse than spending the last decades of your life in a "senior home" in your own secretions. Not in my humble opinion. Why must we be "protected" so that we go through life halfly suffocated? Because that's how I feel about laws that were made on me without asking me about my opinion about them.

Quote from: odeon


You're splitting hairs. Their targets were innocent.


How could I but "split hairs"? How do you know they were? Didn't anyone of them know their killers before?

Quote from: odeon


But they are NOT happening in Switzerland.

No, interesting isn't it, because until 2000 guns were totally free in Switzerland, like in Vermont. The guns were easier to get hold of than in most American states. So the guns themselves can't be blamed. Might we guess that this was due to Switzerland being a welfare state, and pretty much like Sweden, and the shootings in the US are due to the country and mentality itself being more brutal? But of course Swedish politicians and reporters wouldn't drag up Switzerland, because they want the Swedish people to believe that guns in themselves are evil, and it's much easier throwing shit on the US than on Switzerland, because the US do things that Sweden and Switzerland aren't able to or daren't do and thus Swedish hypocrite politicians and reporters just have to throw shit on the US.

Offline odeon

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Re: Cop uses stun gun on student who won't show ID
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2006, 03:52:43 PM »
Why must we be "protected" so that we go through life halfly suffocated? Because that's how I feel about laws that were made on me without asking me about my opinion about them.

I prefer to be protected against some gun nut who decides that Tuesday's a good day for shooting my 12-yo for trespassing. If you feel suffocated because of that, well, that's tough. May I suggest a country with laws made up in the heat of the moment? A "liberated" one, say?

Are there other laws they haven't consulted you on?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

- Albert Einstein