I hope this guy doesn't have AS

[Genesis]

I heard about this story when I woke up, yet somehow.... All I feel is sorrow for the victims that died in that theater

[P7PSP]

If the US gun laws worked better than the European ones, wouldn't it show? Wouldn't countries with severe restrictions on firearms have more crime?

I browsed the net for some statistics but found nothing to support such notions. I did find this, putting the US in some not very flattering company, but more disturbingly, I also stumbled upon this report. Among other things, it says this about gun-related violence on minors in the US:

In 2006 alone, the 3,184 children and teens killed by firearms nearly equaled the total number of U.S. combat deaths in Iraq since the war started and were more than five times the number of American combat fatalities in Afghanistan.

Yes, I understand about wanting to protect yourself and this not being an academic issue for you, but I can't help wondering if there would be less need for protection with stricter gun laws.

Actually if you were comparing apples to apples you might have something there odeon. Your own Brady cite shows blacks 15 to 19 having a young death rate 5 times higher than whites and more than twice as high as the high hispanic rate for the same age. That right there is the elephant in the room odeon. Have you ever heard of the Gangster Disciples? Crips? Bloods? Latin Kings? 18th Street? MS13? Youngsters that age being killed are most often killed by their rivals or killed because they were mistaken for a rival but not affiliated. If we moved one of their neighborhoods intact into your city they would behave the same. People living in cities are much more likely to be attacked by a gang of animals than by an idiot spree killer on any given day*. Here are FBI murder stats from 2010 for you to peruse if you want http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl03.xls

My point is NOT to minimize or make okay the behavior of the idiot spree killer. I hope he gets the death penalty. The media loves idiot spree killers because they get mileage out of it. Another dead homie or esse in da hood or barrio? Not so much, it happens too often to be news worthy.

*here is an example of the specific type attack I refer to odeon. The person who posted the video clearly has negative attitudes about blacks. That does not alter what happened in this instance or take away from the fact that it happens thousands of times a year and gets minimized or swept under the rug by the US newsmedia.

[TheoK]

But PPK! How racist of you to say that blacks attack white people out of race hatred. Only white folks do that to blacks. In Europe you might get prison for saying that.

And why do you want to move gangsters to that nice little village? 

 

[P7PSP]

I heard about this story when I woke up, yet somehow.... All I feel is sorrow for the victims that died in that theater

It does suck.

But PPK! How racist of you to say that blacks attack white people out of race hatred. Only white folks do that to blacks. In Europe you might get prison for saying that.

And why do you want to move gangsters to that nice little village? 

 

It is something the US news media generally only reports on a local level and glosses over the racial aspects of or fails altogether to identify the ethnicity of the youths.

[TheoK]

I was ironic. It's the same shit here. Every time immigrants are committing a crime here, the media try to cover it up.

When these girls were raped and beaten blodily by black and arab immigrants on New Year's Eve 2004 the media said that it was done by Swedes and Finns! They even made faked silhouettes in the newspapers. Only the neonazis told the truth: that they were immigrants from Somalia and some Arab country.

[P7PSP]

Covering stuff up and pretending is a good way to ensure that it continues.

[TheoK]

I know, I know. And they are obviously not ashamed that they were lying and the nazis were telling the truth.

[odeon]

Nice strawman there, Lit.

PPK: Did you check the actual numbers in the report? The elephant, as you say, is not the skewed Hispanic statistics, it's the fact that the numbers are so high to begin with. I don't pretend to know why this is the case, but I suspect (and apparently others, too) that they aren't made any lower by how easily the guns used to kill them can be acquired.

Btw--I assume you know that the FBI statistics do not cover all of the population, nor all firearm-related deaths?

We've been through all this before, though, and I very much doubt we can agree on any of it beyond the most basic numbers. I briefly thought of doing a write-up of the next few rounds of discussion but what's the point? It's a discussion that will flare up every time there is a new incident like this and we could just as easily use the search functions and use the old threads.

[TheoK]

It's actually not about statistics, it's about which paradigm you have. Someone with a utilitarian, pragmatic view doesn't have the same paradigm as someone who has a moral view.

Another example: in Sweden you can be locked up in a nuthouse if you are suicidal, "for your own good". I consider that an incredible violation of that person's right. Everyone has a 100% right to take his own life.

[P7PSP]

Nice strawman there, Lit.

PPK: Did you check the actual numbers in the report? The elephant, as you say, is not the skewed Hispanic statistics, it's the fact that the numbers are so high to begin with. I don't pretend to know why this is the case, but I suspect (and apparently others, too) that they aren't made any lower by how easily the guns used to kill them can be acquired.

Btw--I assume you know that the FBI statistics do not cover all of the population, nor all firearm-related deaths?

We've been through all this before, though, and I very much doubt we can agree on any of it beyond the most basic numbers. I briefly thought of doing a write-up of the next few rounds of discussion but what's the point? It's a discussion that will flare up every time there is a new incident like this and we could just as easily use the search functions and use the old threads.

The disproportionate black and hispanic contributions are the elephant in the room odeon. Do you really believe the trends shown in the FBI UCR would change if every police dept in the USA contributed? I could just as easily have used rates of incarceration tables from the US DOJ to show the same trends. The same people who like to point out how crack sentencing guidelines unfairly target blacks overlook crank sentencing guidelines and how those guidelines affect more whites.

Here is some local info for you to peruse if you care to. http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Oakland-California.html I picked Oakland CA because it is local and quite violent. Right next to Oakland is Orinda CA which is very low crime. One thing I believe we can agree on is that the brick, mortar and asphalt that helps make up a city is not what commits murder, rape etc. I find the San Francisco figures interesting, overall it is a pretty safe city but if you want the Oakland experience while in San Francisco you can elect to visit the Hunters Point or Visitacion Valley neighborhoods < that is sarcasm of course, I really would not recommend you visit either. Here is my own city http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Vallejo-California.html like with Oakland - Orinda we have Vallejo with Benicia right next door. I could tell you how demographics play into the huge disparity of crime rates but I don't think you want to hear about it. Like you I don't see any reason to run this in the ground but I do want to bring these points up. That said you can have the last word at this point if you want it.

[odeon]

It's actually not about statistics, it's about which paradigm you have. Someone with a utilitarian, pragmatic view doesn't have the same paradigm as someone who has a moral view.

Another example: in Sweden you can be locked up in a nuthouse if you are suicidal, "for your own good". I consider that an incredible violation of that person's right. Everyone has a 100% right to take his own life.

Look up the old threads, mate. We've had this particular discussion, too.

[renaeden]

From what I read of his description, the guy does sound like an aspie unfortunately. He also had a profile on Adult Friend Finder and wrote, "Will you visit me in prison?" or something to that effect.

[Phallacy]

There is talk going around the internet that he does have AS, and that the defense may use it to get an insanity plea. Well, there goes the gun rights of our section of the population.

On where, exactly? Wrong Planet? The place where anybody could be an aspie?

[TA]

There is talk going around the internet that he does have AS, and that the defense may use it to get an insanity plea. Well, there goes the gun rights of our section of the population.

On where, exactly? Wrong Planet? The place where anybody could be an aspie?

  Comment sections on a few articles.

[TheoK]

I have a feeling that PPK won't get an answer.