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Author Topic: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?  (Read 1312 times)

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Offline "couldbecousin"

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2012, 04:01:09 AM »
I guess I wonder is there a difference between valid criticism of a religion and bashing/bigotry.  Is it ever valid to critisise a religion as a whole.

 Criticizing a particular religion is not the same thing as rejecting all religion.
 Are you religious?  Do you think the only possible motivation for atheism is bigotry?
 
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2012, 04:45:45 AM »
I think that most religions have a vested interest in sky being and forces outside of science. Magic and omnipotent beings. If we say that to some extent these things exist in all religions then in my mind that is not bigotry. It is simply making a logical premise of 'This shit can not be qualified or quantified and it does not hold with my understanding of the world."
Were we to say "All Muslims are the same. They are the lowest forms of scum." THAT is both untrue and bigotted
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Offline BruceCM

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2012, 06:22:44 AM »
Some of us (OK, me) sees a lot of science as a belief. It's one thing, when you're talking something relatively simple, like gravity. That we all experience & the theories can easily be tested & checked. But it does keep pushing into more philosophical areas. Everybody is entitled to believe whatever they like, as I said before, as far as I'm concerned. It's only if they're trying to make me believe the same that I, personally, require some reason to do so.
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2012, 06:26:18 AM »
Some of us (OK, me) sees a lot of science as a belief. It's one thing, when you're talking something relatively simple, like gravity. That we all experience & the theories can easily be tested & checked. But it does keep pushing into more philosophical areas. Everybody is entitled to believe whatever they like, as I said before, as far as I'm concerned. It's only if they're trying to make me believe the same that I, personally, require some reason to do so.

Science is always holding itself out as a theory and willing to expose itself to scrutiny.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline BruceCM

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2012, 06:39:46 AM »
Well, only according to it's own methods. For the areas I'm most interested in, those are not as good & I, of course, object to philosophers insisting on theirs, too! lol When my physics teacher told me, several times, I was asking 'philosophical' questions, I'd have to agree.
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Offline J_R

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2012, 12:47:38 AM »
I guess I wonder is there a difference between valid criticism of a religion and bashing/bigotry.  Is it ever valid to critisise a religion as a whole.

Criticizing a religion is not the same as criticising the people who practice it.  Hell, even criticising the people is not the same as believing they are less than other people, which is the basis of bigotry.

We should be willing to criticize every human institution, every goverment, every religion, every organization, every culture even.  Recognizing faults and flaws is not bigotry, so long as one maintains awareness that there is no group without them.
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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2012, 02:08:20 AM »
I guess I wonder is there a difference between valid criticism of a religion and bashing/bigotry.  Is it ever valid to critisise a religion as a whole.

Criticizing a religion is not the same as criticising the people who practice it.  Hell, even criticising the people is not the same as believing they are less than other people, which is the basis of bigotry.

We should be willing to criticize every human institution, every goverment, every religion, every organization, every culture even.  Recognizing faults and flaws is not bigotry, so long as one maintains awareness that there is no group without them.

Not a bad ideology but I think it definitely needs to be said that the individual of a group is not the sum of the whole or that the even a large selection of a people of a group will define every persons beliefs.
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline J_R

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2012, 05:42:13 AM »
it definitely needs to be said that the individual of a group is not the sum of the whole or that the even a large selection of a people of a group will define every persons beliefs.

Agreed.
Walk around me not before me, I'll pretend not to ignore ye
But I'll compromise if I realize you can do something for me
I'm ugly and you know it, but you think that I'm a poet
So I'll keep the rhyme if I feel in time, it gets me where I'm going

Flogging Molly, "Selfish Man"

Offline BruceCM

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2012, 03:59:10 AM »
The question only being 'can you...', the answer is obviously yes. Next?
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Offline MutieTom

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2012, 03:45:12 PM »
should people ever critisise Judaism and Islam.  Seeing as those 2 religions are often used as targets by nazis who accuse them of conspiracies to take over Europe.  But, can also be oppressive to their own members.  Or is it best to just never critisise religions your not part of yourself and mind your own business.

Offline Adam

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2012, 04:44:37 PM »
should people ever critisise Judaism and Islam. Seeing as those 2 religions are often used as targets by nazis who accuse them of conspiracies to take over Europe.  But, can also be oppressive to their own members.  Or is it best to just never critisise religions your not part of yourself and mind your own business.

Of course people should still criticise religion. Just because assholes also use it as an excuse to hide behind doesn't mean genuine crititcism of it as a religion is wrong.

And I don't think people should have to "moind their own business" when it comes to religion in general. Obviously you need to mind your own business if it's someone practicing their religion themselves. But religion in general - that should DEFINITELY be criticised, especially aspects sexist/homophobic etc aspects of it

Offline vampslord

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Re: Can you have strong atheism/secularism without racism?
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2012, 06:05:47 AM »
Op question is retarded. religion =/= race. It has nothing to do with it.

Saying atheism is a religion is even more retarded. Atheism is a religion as much as being bald is an hair color. Like not collecting stamp is an hobby. Like not having AIDS is being sick. Atheism is a LACK of belief. Stop listening to religious apologist moron like Kent Hovind or Ray "banana man" Comfort and his homo-erotic sidekick Kirk Cameron who claim it's a religion, these moron know nothing.