Determinism & Free Will

[Callaway]

You brain obviously sees areason to "go against the current" tho and tells you to do that.

Obviously.

[Calavera]

I think that both free will and determinism exist.

I think that exercising free will is kind of like swimming against the current while determinism is more like swimming with the current.

Swimming against the current is most likely an illusion. You're always swimming with it regardless of how you perceive it.

Besides, free will itself seems like something that's defined and redefined multiple times to suit one's needs and arguments.

In fact, when you think deeper about it, it's just illogical.

I mean, think of it this way:

If free will is an independently 50/50 probability, then any choice you make is going to be random and not based on any past experience and such. Otherwise, as soon as you invoke past experience, it becomes determinism, not free will.

If free will is not necessarily a 50/50 probability, but can be something like 30/70 in favor of one of the options to choose from, then one would want to know why there's this 70% bias in favor of one of the options. What exactly is the reason that it's not a 50/50 thing? And as soon as you ask for the reason, then you implicitly and inadvertently admit against free will.

See where I'm getting at here?

[Adam]

You brain obviously sees areason to "go against the current" tho and tells you to do that.

Obviously.

 

So how is that free will?

[Dexter Morgan]

Here's a good explanation of what I believe:

[renaeden]

[Calavera]

Here's a good explanation of what I believe:

Determinism doesn't deny the fact that we actually go through what is called the process of choosing. After all, the brain can't just give you the "right" choice to make without investigating things in mind (pun not intended). It's just that if one were omniscient, such a being would know the choice you make even before you make it (as there's always going to be one path only).

The fact that the human brain is complex only shows that we (along with our brains) are a product of zillions of years of evolution throughout this planet. Just because we're not omniscient and, therefore, fully aware of the outcomes of whatever choices we make doesn't mean "free will" is involved. It just means we're not gods to know every single detail concerning every decision we make.

Also, keep in mind he actually admits the brain takes note of the consequences of possible choices one can make. And based on the way it's been conditioned to work throughout the years of evolution, the brain then tells us exactly what choice to make.

The concept of free will can be a very satisfying concept to take hold of, but it can't stand itself in the face of a simpler and better explanation: determinism.

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Why is it a lot of people always "choose" to never kill those they hate? Where's the free will exactly?

Actually, what is free will? That is the question that I think must be answered first before any discussion about this should arise.

This. I cannot even come up with an well thought out answer because I cannot define free will.

However, from what I know I have to agree free will is an illusion of the mind's ability to experience feedback from it's own actions and surroundings; and assess contradictions to respond to accordingly. But then there's an interesting thought, how does determinism handle a paradox? Could free-will be the ability to resolve paradoxes with an illogical answer a person can willingly choose?

So if I say 1/0 = 38, is that free-will to choose a ridiculously illogical answer, or is there a underlying determinism to why I chose that answer?

[Calavera]

Why is it a lot of people always "choose" to never kill those they hate? Where's the free will exactly?

Actually, what is free will? That is the question that I think must be answered first before any discussion about this should arise.

This. I cannot even come up with an well thought out answer because I cannot define free will.

However, from what I know I have to agree free will is an illusion of the mind's ability to experience feedback from it's own actions and surroundings; and assess contradictions to respond to accordingly. But then there's an interesting thought, how does determinism handle a paradox? Could free-will be the ability to resolve paradoxes with an illogical answer a person can willingly choose?

So if I say 1/0 = 38, is that free-will to choose a ridiculously illogical answer, or is there a underlying determinism to why I chose that answer?

That's a very good question to ponder on.

Methinks there must be something in the mind that coincidentally ticked the number 38 based on hidden patterns "unconsciously" observed by the person himself and taken note of by the brain - patterns that we're unaware of.

But this definitely requires a lot of studies and experiments to find out for us what the real answer to the question might be.

Either way, even free will cannot explain this properly as free will requires conscious thinking and is more to do with moral decisions rather than coming up with illogical numbers to an undefined mathematical operation.

This is more a determinism vs. pure randomness sort of question, not a determinism vs. free will.

[Pig]

This is more a determinism vs. pure randomness sort of question, not a determinism vs. free will.

There is supposed to be some true randomness in reality.  Randomness is not free will though, it is just a very small part of a mostly-deterministic universe. 


That's what duh smart people told me!  I can't trust em tho, so I think the world is a raisin turning into a prune that will turn into a Will Vinton tv special.

[Calavera]

This is more a determinism vs. pure randomness sort of question, not a determinism vs. free will.

There is supposed to be some true randomness in reality.  Randomness is not free will though, it is just a very small part of a mostly-deterministic universe.

That's what I said basically.

[Pig]

This is more a determinism vs. pure randomness sort of question, not a determinism vs. free will.

There is supposed to be some true randomness in reality.  Randomness is not free will though, it is just a very small part of a mostly-deterministic universe.

That's what I said basically.

Oh okay.  Sorry, I usually just think about what I want to say instead of paying attention to what I'm reading. 

[Dexter Morgan]

Why is it a lot of people always "choose" to never kill those they hate? Where's the free will exactly?

Actually, what is free will? That is the question that I think must be answered first before any discussion about this should arise.

This. I cannot even come up with an well thought out answer because I cannot define free will.

However, from what I know I have to agree free will is an illusion of the mind's ability to experience feedback from it's own actions and surroundings; and assess contradictions to respond to accordingly. But then there's an interesting thought, how does determinism handle a paradox? Could free-will be the ability to resolve paradoxes with an illogical answer a person can willingly choose?

So if I say 1/0 = 38, is that free-will to choose a ridiculously illogical answer, or is there a underlying determinism to why I chose that answer?

You chose 38 because something in your mind preconceived it to be a reasonable answer.  It is not the ultimate answer for dividing one by zero, but it is one.

[rogue]

I haven't decided. I can choose my own fate short term but if my choices conflict with that of others then it becomes win or lose or hope that that "something else" decides that neither has control of.

[TheoK]

The will is determined, but it is "free" in the sense that it's individual.

[Adam]

No such thing as free will