Suicide

[El]

Is seeking any attention, and possibly help, a bad thing? When simply 'asking' for help falls on deaf ears, what can someone do when they're in so much pain?

Seeking help is different than emotionally blackmailing others.

Are you asking for justification or to feel better about using threats and gestures to communicate, or genuinely asking for alternatives?  Because, alternatives are the better way to go.  Using suicidal threats and gestures to communicate will ultimately just perpetuate cycles of dysfunction that will keep you more depressed than you'd be if you knew and used better ways to get your message across.

I'm not saying people who use threats and gestures as blackmail/emotional currency are terrible people- but, they are doing something quite shitty to the people they're blackmailing.  If that's really the only way to communicate with a particular person, well, I would seriously question why that particular person is in your life.

[Bastet]

Is seeking any attention, and possibly help, a bad thing? When simply 'asking' for help falls on deaf ears, what can someone do when they're in so much pain?

Seeking help is different than emotionally blackmailing others.

Are you asking for justification or to feel better about using threats and gestures to communicate, or genuinely asking for alternatives?  Because, alternatives are the better way to go.  Using suicidal threats and gestures to communicate will ultimately just perpetuate cycles of dysfunction that will keep you more depressed than you'd be if you knew and used better ways to get your message across.

I'm not saying people who use threats and gestures as blackmail/emotional currency are terrible people- but, they are doing something quite shitty to the people they're blackmailing.  If that's really the only way to communicate with a particular person, well, I would seriously question why that particular person is in your life.

When I attempted suicide my mother wouldn't stop screaming at me and I felt desperate. It hurts my ears to be yelled at. I find physical pain much more bearable. I wasn't thinking I'd get back at her, I just wanted to escape my hell and she was driving me nuts.

[ZEGH8578]

only in The West will a yelling parent be described as "hell"...


i really, really dont get it.
one friend of mine was actually handed over to her mothers bf - by her own mother - for him to abuse as he wanted.
in other words:
her own mother aided her own husband into raping her own daughter.

being yelled at wouldnt even come close to reasons for suicide, and i dont give the slightest shit how fragile you are, sensitive to sounds.
thats like one step away from shooting yourself because your favorite tv show was postponed with an hour, or something trivial like that. too much homework? suicide! maybe accidentally erased a save-game from your favorite game! suicide!
and this coming from someone with a mentally unstable mother, who would yell at me daily, just to vent, just to release some stress. ive had worse things going against me than a yelling mother. there is so much worse to have.

here is some hell:


really, i dont mean to be a brick, but you're young. you have plenty of oportunity to toughen up a bit. everything considered, your life is swell. you even have computer games.

[Bastet]

only in The West will a yelling parent be described as "hell"...


i really, really dont get it.
one friend of mine was actually handed over to her mothers bf - by her own mother - for him to abuse as he wanted.
in other words:
her own mother aided her own husband into raping her own daughter.

being yelled at wouldnt even come close to reasons for suicide, and i dont give the slightest shit how fragile you are, sensitive to sounds.
thats like one step away from shooting yourself because your favorite tv show was postponed with an hour, or something trivial like that. too much homework? suicide! maybe accidentally erased a save-game from your favorite game! suicide!
and this coming from someone with a mentally unstable mother, who would yell at me daily, just to vent, just to release some stress. ive had worse things going against me than a yelling mother. there is so much worse to have.

here is some hell:


really, i dont mean to be a brick, but you're young. you have plenty of oportunity to toughen up a bit. everything considered, your life is swell. you even have computer games.

I think you missed my point. It wasn't "emotional blackmail", I was trying to escape. I felt trapped. And yes I've had much worse happen to me which I do not feel like reliving. (I was catatonic for 3 years)I used to be very dispassionate as a child. I rarely cried. I went from that to being hypersensitive and I have severe depression which I cannot control. My medications aren't working and I am desperate.

[ZEGH8578]

i know you didnt refer to emotional blackmail,
im just... generally sick of western, relatively lucky (globally speaking) people wanting to die because its not all going too well for them.

life is about enduring.
reincarnation, 2nd chances, life-after-death, those are all uncertainties.

people kill themselves out of a perception of relief - that the pain will go away. but how the hell are you to even feel relief, if you are dead?

people take death far too lightly, while other places people are fighting to stay alive.
not just in poor countries
just think of unlucky sobs everywhere, people who die in car crashes, people who scream for their lives in a plummeting aircraft, those hiding from fucking breivik, as he systematically hunted them down, and blew their brains out with his smug smile.

nobody is trying to shoot you. you arent in a burning plane.

i realize im probably exaggerating now, to bring my point through. you admit to having endured much worse than a yelling mother yourself.
imo suicide is reserved for those with an absolutely debilitating condition combined with absolutely no positive outlook in life, such as someone w a severed spine, accidental castration and having absolutely no friends and family. even then i wouldnt support it, but at least understand it.
you know what i mean?

we need to get things into perspective... "we" being basically everyone.

[bodie]

That was a wicked post zegh.    You worded it well and it said exactly what i have been thinking but just couldn't find the words.

[bodie]

[Adam]

Just because you#re "relatively lucky" compared to people in war-torn / poverty-stricken countries doesn't mean you aren't in pain. Sure, I could spend all day on the xbox, I have central heating, I can order a pizza, and I'm unlikely to have my arm blown off by an explosive... but does that mean I can't suffer?

Mental illness for example, doesn't necessarily care how well-off you are. (yes I know there are variations, my point is that regardless of whtehr you're living in the west or not, you can still suffer)

[Queen Victoria]

That was a wicked post zegh.    You worded it well and it said exactly what i have been thinking but just couldn't find the words.

That makes 3. 

['andersom']

A lot of people who end up suicidal here would have gotten killed in a third world country.

In some countries, rape victims would end up in prison, to get raped again, and probably murdered, or they'd be killed for being damaged goods. No time for them to commit suicide.

People with big mental issues can get treatment here, in a poorer country, they'd end up in the streets, and, their death would just be the death of another homeless person.

Mental suffering is suffering. No matter where you are.

And, when is something suicide. When a depressed woman in a poor country can't get herself going any more to earn food, she'll starve. Could be passive suicide.

Seems that in Belgium, compared to other surrounding countries, suicide rates are high. Belgium seems to have a culture where people don't tell when they are mentally not feeling OK. So, no treatment for depression, because of not seeking help. And, then the braving doesn't work any more, they kill themselves. They probably thought that what they had was no real suffering.

['andersom']

Not that I do not see some merit in ZEGH's post.

The western culture seems to be obsessed with perfection.
We should not be overweight,
We should not have pain.
We should not suffer.

The whole society seems to want to ban out things that are not perfect. So yes, there seems to be a pressure to make little things into huge drama. But, that's not what suicide is about in most of the cases.

[Adam]

also the danger with comparing suffering of someone who's "got it relatively easy" with someone in afghanistan etc, is that it ultimately leads to a "just snap out of it" attitude. ie your problems don't matter so just get over it

If you're depressed or in pain in some way, then that is true regardless of material/financial circumstances

And if you start saying the suffering of people elsewhere in the world is worse than in the west (and I don't mean collectively, obviously in general it IS much worse in somalia or whatever, I mean the suffering of an individual), then what's to stop you continuing that? Who suffers the most on this website? Who has it hardest? Is my suffering pathetic compared to another member's?

Clearly day-to-day life, financial, political life etc is much better here. But that's on the surface. It doesn't mean individual people don't suffer mentally.

Not to mention that if it is clinical depression then it has nothing to do with circumstances

['andersom']

 

[bodie]

I am getting confused.  Is this about suicide or being mentally ill?  I don't believe all suicides are mentally ill.

[ZEGH8578]

I am getting confused.  Is this about suicide or being mentally ill?  I don't believe all suicides are mentally ill.

^
this

mental illness is a whole different chapter.

also:
i never said western wealthy problems arent real problems, and that suffering isnt real suffering. im saying put it in _perspective_, or else _any_ problem becomes _the biggest problem in the world_.
i really wasnt gonna repeat this, but its obvious i have to:
WHY DEATH!?

again, "pass me the potatoes, OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!"

is suicide applicable to every problem on the entire scope of discomfort?
from a ruined life, to a shoelace slipping open?
really?
i burned my dinner today. i actually did. burned it. does this warrant suicide?

if someone has a problem, they should: deal with this problem in order to live their life without that particular problem.
suicide does not _relieve_ a problem, because death shuts off all reality for the dead person.

we have allready had mentioned suicide due to parents yelling. come on.
people kill themselves because their gf leaves them (two people i know of did this. one jumped off a bridge, the other hung herself in the shower, survived, but got permanent brain damage and is now in a vegetative state)

im not saying "snap out of it" at all, i am saying _deal with it_ <---NOT figuratively! deal with it as in WORK WITH IT: its not snappy! its not easy! it will take time and effort, and maybe life doesnt really get any better. so what? how high are your expectations?
starvation being "passive suicide" is total rubbish btw. i cant believe this "hurray, go-suicide!" mentality in here.