Suicide

[Pig]

If I tried to kill myself and someone saved me I'd be pissed.  Lemme alone here, I'm trying to die you assholes!

[odeon]

I have just read what odeon said.  He makes a good point

But I find the arguments for and against their right to do so confusing and conflicting. If you think you are within your rights to end your life and attempt it but fail, what then? Is it obvious that the society should do everything they can to get you back on your feet? If you are still suicidal, should you be locked in and forced to therapy? How should society prioritise all this?

It must be very hard when you are expected to respect others 'right to commit suicide'  and then also 'help' those who want it/ need it.  I mean how the hell are you supposed to KNOW.  Ok someone taking a load of pills and then turning up in A&E saying 'I'v just done the lot' with an empty bottle in their hands - yeah pretty obvious they are wanting HELP.   But what about other scenarios that may not be all that clear.  Maybe they were found already unconscious or something.  How many times will the staff on these wards faced a right load of abuse because they did SAVE someone.  Do they SAVE people two or three times, or what?  I think it is perhaps an area that is highly skilled but maybe it is not recognised.  It must be soul destroying to work with someone and give them your best care only to see them again in a few months.  Perhaps staff should be trained to a higher level,  i don't know.  I still think that what ren and eris went through falls way under the mark and is a serious error in professionalism.

Yes, patients should be treated professionally, always. Agreed.

But it is an interesting question, isn't it? How many times should they try to save a suicidal person?

[odeon]

If I tried to kill myself and someone saved me I'd be pissed.  Lemme alone here, I'm trying to die you assholes!

Yet in many countries you could be fined for not helping.

[Peter]

If I tried to kill myself and someone saved me I'd be pissed.  Lemme alone here, I'm trying to die you assholes!

Yet in many countries you could be fined for not helping.

Sometimes suicide is a rational choice, and society should grow the balls to accept it and let a person die.  Other times, they're not thinking clearly and they'll probably change their mind in a few hours/days/weeks, so they should be protected from harming themselves during their temporary period of vulnerability. 

Distinguishing between rational suicide that should be respected as a valid choice for a person to make, and irrational suicide that should be treated as a pathological condition of the mind, is a job for mental health professionals with no legal or personal bias for finding one way or another.  Unfortunately, even the most progressive societies are just starting to come to terms with suicide as a valid personal choice, but I foresee a point in the future when there'll be a well established legal-medical process for suicide in many places that protects the mentally ill from themselves and provides a painless and assured death for those who know what they're doing.

Rescuers will be able to proceed with greater confidence when they know that people attempting suicide can be processed later on, and that people resorting to non-approved methods of suicide are less likely to be in a rational state of mind at the time and more likely to be in need of the protecting-them-from-themselves sort of help (unless it goes the same way that abortion seems to be going in parts of the US, and medically assisted suicide becomes theoretically legal, but very difficult for many people to access in practice).

[bodie]

I have just read what odeon said.  He makes a good point

But I find the arguments for and against their right to do so confusing and conflicting. If you think you are within your rights to end your life and attempt it but fail, what then? Is it obvious that the society should do everything they can to get you back on your feet? If you are still suicidal, should you be locked in and forced to therapy? How should society prioritise all this?

It must be very hard when you are expected to respect others 'right to commit suicide'  and then also 'help' those who want it/ need it.  I mean how the hell are you supposed to KNOW.  Ok someone taking a load of pills and then turning up in A&E saying 'I'v just done the lot' with an empty bottle in their hands - yeah pretty obvious they are wanting HELP.   But what about other scenarios that may not be all that clear.  Maybe they were found already unconscious or something.  How many times will the staff on these wards faced a right load of abuse because they did SAVE someone.  Do they SAVE people two or three times, or what?  I think it is perhaps an area that is highly skilled but maybe it is not recognised.  It must be soul destroying to work with someone and give them your best care only to see them again in a few months.  Perhaps staff should be trained to a higher level,  i don't know.  I still think that what ren and eris went through falls way under the mark and is a serious error in professionalism.

Yes, patients should be treated professionally, always. Agreed.

But it is an interesting question, isn't it? How many times should they try to save a suicidal person?

plus there is also the small matter of dealing with relatives....   it has 'headache' written all over it!

[Zippo]

Yes, patients should be treated professionally, always. Agreed.

But it is an interesting question, isn't it? How many times should they try to save a suicidal person?

my personal views is that every single moment on this planet is precious. now i believe people have the RIGHT to commit suicide but if they fail than they should be saved and should be treated as if it was a mental illness [because lets face it. depression and suicidal thoughts is a mental illness. if not the side effect of some other dizzies/medication either way it should be treated]

so in my opinion IF you fuck it up prepare for people to attempt to save you. IF you feel like doing it i guess do it good and do it where someone does not have to clean up the mess. in other words. dont blow your brains out in your mothers basement.

[Pig]

dont blow your brains out in your mothers basement.

Hey, who told you!?  I thought I was keeping that a surprise.

Oh well, there's more than one way to skin a cat, heh heh. 

[Émile Armand]

Have you ever killed yourself before?  If you haven't, how are you planning to?

If some has killed themself before, how are they suppose to respond to your question?

[Squidusa]

Have you ever killed yourself before?  If you haven't, how are you planning to?

If some has killed themself before, how are they suppose to respond to your question?

We have a team of psychics on standby purely for that occasion. 

dont blow your brains out in your mothers basement.

Hey, who told you!?  I thought I was keeping that a surprise.

Oh well, there's more than one way to skin a cat, heh heh. 

He said don't blow your brains out , you could resort to self-decapitation instead. 

[bodie]

Have you ever killed yourself before?  If you haven't, how are you planning to?

If some has killed themself before, how are they suppose to respond to your question?

He was being funny.  Pig is our larf-a-minute-resident-comedian.

 

['Butterflies']

Yes, patients should be treated professionally, always. Agreed.

But it is an interesting question, isn't it? How many times should they try to save a suicidal person?

my personal views is that every single moment on this planet is precious. now i believe people have the RIGHT to commit suicide but if they fail than they should be saved and should be treated as if it was a mental illness [because lets face it. depression and suicidal thoughts is a mental illness. if not the side effect of some other dizzies/medication either way it should be treated]

so in my opinion IF you fuck it up prepare for people to attempt to save you. IF you feel like doing it i guess do it good and do it where someone does not have to clean up the mess. in other words. dont blow your brains out in your mothers basement.

That's not always true. I agree with what Peter said.

Of course, suicidal thoughts are often down to mental illness, or a temporary feeling of hopelessness.

There are other times when suicide is a rational choice, and sometimes even the right choice. My Great Aunt is still alive, 3-4 years after being diagnosed with Senile Dementia. She hasn't been out of bed in almost 2 years, she is in constant agony, and she has the mental capacity of a baby.
If I was diagnosed with Dementia, I would like to think I would be  enough to kill myself, before I reached a stage where I was unable to do it.
I am sure my Great Aunt would have felt the same way, if she had known how her illness would have progressed.

[Zippo]

Yes, patients should be treated professionally, always. Agreed.

But it is an interesting question, isn't it? How many times should they try to save a suicidal person?

my personal views is that every single moment on this planet is precious. now i believe people have the RIGHT to commit suicide but if they fail than they should be saved and should be treated as if it was a mental illness [because lets face it. depression and suicidal thoughts is a mental illness. if not the side effect of some other dizzies/medication either way it should be treated]

so in my opinion IF you fuck it up prepare for people to attempt to save you. IF you feel like doing it i guess do it good and do it where someone does not have to clean up the mess. in other words. dont blow your brains out in your mothers basement.

That's not always true. I agree with what Peter said.

Of course, suicidal thoughts are often down to mental illness, or a temporary feeling of hopelessness.

There are other times when suicide is a rational choice, and sometimes even the right choice. My Great Aunt is still alive, 3-4 years after being diagnosed with Senile Dementia. She hasn't been out of bed in almost 2 years, she is in constant agony, and she has the mental capacity of a baby.
If I was diagnosed with Dementia, I would like to think I would be  enough to kill myself, before I reached a stage where I was unable to do it.
I am sure my Great Aunt would have felt the same way, if she had known how her illness would have progressed.

the key is suicide and depression. when they go hand in hand... i agree if i was diagnosed with a terminal illness i would wait till things started getting rough and i hope i would have the guts to off myself before i became a burden... i should hope it never comes to that!

[Kaelyrhn]

I disagree that nurses have the right to be angry at suicide patients. To behave in such way just seems like a result negative stigma or ignorance toward mental illness.

A suicide patient who has required medical hospitalisation is no different from someone who has suffered an injury. Being suicidal, one is not in the right frame of mind, thinking is distorted, and they're in so much emotional pain (sometimes) that everything is clouded. So their actions can not be indicative of any real or actual desire to cease existence, but rather that the idea of ceasing to exist seems like the only viable response to their pain. It's an illness like any other.

Nurses have no more right to be angry at a suicide patient than they do a clumsy handyman.


I've been suicidal a lot. In fact I'm not entirely sure I can remember a time when it hasn't been there, lurking in the back of mind. I've only attempt twice in my life (once at 9 and again a two years ago) both of those weren't entirely serious efforts though and could probably be added to the plethora of other self harmful actions I've taken, which include a lot of mild overdoses (non-lethal but beyond prescription levels).

This past month over I was so depressed and so suicidal that I actually formulated the most detailed and well thought plan on how I could pull it off with as minimal fuss to my family as possible. I won't go into it here. The only thing that really stopped me, I feel, was my overriding sense of laziness. I didn't want to do it because it seemed like an effort, and in my depressive funk any effort was far too much for me to consider. And I couldn't overdose on pills because, as renaeden mentioned, there'd be a mess to clean up and I couldn't fathom making my family go through that, especially so soon after Xmas.

Something I wrote on my blog a while back;

Last week it peaked, to the point I was suicidal. Seriously suicidal. I had a plan and everything. Worked it all out in my head. Well that was the most worked out plan, I had/have others. It was scary. I was worried? that I was going to do something. I guess not worried for me, but worried for everyone who cares about me, particularly my Mum and [renaeden]. But I have to admit I would still welcome it… :/

Suicidal thoughts don't always accompany depressions though. I've had many a suicidal thought and plans while I've been in a good mood. It's one of the things that worries me about high moods, and hypomania and such. Because the higher the mood the less impulse control I have...or really..The less lazy I become. And if I have the energy and impulsiveness and the suicidal thoughts...I might actually do something... 

[odeon]

They have every right to be angry. What they don't have is the right to act based on that anger.

[Kaelyrhn]

They have every right to be angry. What they don't have is the right to act based on that anger.

For someone's life or how they feel about their life to be in such a state that they think of ending it as a viable option, something has gone seriously wrong.
Anger would be an incredibly selfish response to their plight. Nurses of all people should be showing compassion and patience toward them, they're emotionally scarred and tender and to have any sort of anger directed at them, whether through spiteful conscious acts (like renaeden and eris described) or even unconscious ones where the nurse unconsciously pays less attention or due care to the patient, would be incredibly unhelpful to their recovery. Much like pouring hot water on a burn victim.