Video doing the rounds on Facebook and YouTube.

[TA]

Sounds good, but I doubt it would ever happen considering as long as there is mankind, there will be greed.

Thoughts and opinions anyone?

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Civilization will collapse under the weight of its own greed and only then things may improve once the reality sets in. Humanity seems to learn best at its worst times in history.

[TA]

Civilization will collapse under the weight of its own greed and only then things may improve once the reality sets in. Humanity seems to learn best at its worst times in history.

The best example of that I can think of is the fall of Rome and the subsequent Dark Ages, but there was very little improvement then.

There is enough money in this world to eradicate poverty, but if everyone had the same amount, that would be *gasp* socialism. It's an endless cycle of the rich getting richer and victimizing the poor man.

[Scrapheap]

There's no small amount of irony in there. He wants to fight fire with fire.

[P7PSP]

Civilization will collapse under the weight of its own greed and only then things may improve once the reality sets in. Humanity seems to learn best at its worst times in history.

When collapses happen the cycle starts anew. People do not stop wanting more prestige or a higher position in the pecking order. It is hardwired through hundreds of millions of years of evolution to seek the best watering hole, hunting grounds etc. Read The Territorial Imperative by Robert Ardrey if you need a refresher. Consider where the Will To Power that Nietzsche and Yockey referred to came from. Egalitarian Utopia is pie in the sky merde that continues to fail where it is tried.

[TA]

What sort of government can come the closest to utopia? Personally I think it would take either a benevolent dictatorship (Such as Francoist Spain or Bonapartist France) or a Republic with a very heavily regulated election process. Right now, the only governments that are managed properly and that look after their citizens are the Scandinavian countries, the low countries, Switzerland, and Germany. Even then, they have their flaws.

[P7PSP]

Since utopia is a subjective concept I would prefer that governments (at least where I live) not try to deliver it. I prefer a max amount of freedom to attempt to pursue my own happiness. Look at the "utopias" that Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Mehgistu* etc delivered under communism.



*Typo, meant to write Mengistu.

[Scrapheap]

Egalitarian Utopia is pie in the sky merde that continues to fail where it is tried.

Not exactly true. There have been a handful of egalitarian societies through world history. The problem is, it's just a matter of time before they get conquered by more aggressive nations.

Since utopia is a subjective concept I would prefer that governments (at least where I live) not try to deliver it. I prefer a max amount of freedom to attempt to pursue my own happiness. Look at the "utopias" that Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Mehgistu etc delivered under communism.

Yes, that's why the only true utopias have been anarchist in nature. There's no coercive government to enforce someone else's vision of the perfect society on you. Each person gets to create their own utopia, provided it doesn't infringe on someone else's.

[P7PSP]

Egalitarian Utopia is pie in the sky merde that continues to fail where it is tried.

Not exactly true. There have been a handful of egalitarian societies through world history. The problem is, it's just a matter of time before they get conquered by more aggressive nations.

The "If frogs had wings" defense rears its head again.    for consistency and predictability. You and Lit are not unlike dispensationalist Christians who can be counted on to explain why "the model is sound but we failed in applying it to our latest prophecies."

This is why I like hard science over faith based systems Scrap. If one coulomb of electrons passes a point in a circuit in one second it is one ampere period. No coulda, woulda, shoulda needed*. Avagadro's number is either correct or the calculations of unknowns, titration, stoichiometry etc derived from the number come out wrong. Again no "but this, but that" excuse needed.


*On that note the transformer control panel, two SCADA panels and the two 12k breakers they control that I pulled cables for and wired up in November and December all test good because I relied on proven electrical theory and application. No coulda, woulda, shoulda needed to explain why they did not work. Empiricism at work. 

[Scrapheap]

The "If frogs had wings" defense rears its head again.    for consistency and predictability. You and Lit are not unlike dispensationalist Christians who can be counted on to explain why "the model is sound but we failed in applying it to our latest prophecies."

This is why I like hard science over faith based systems Scrap. 

First of all, sociology is hardly a "hard science" like electrical engineering. It still has a long way to go before it is properly understood.

Second, I'm not making "if frogs had wings" argument. I'm saying that egalitarian societies HAVE existed, therefore it proves their possibility. Nothing theoretical about that.

Another thing to take into consideration is the fact that the human brain (and psychology) are still evolving. As time goes on, we shed more and more of our chimp-like thinking that is only concerned with social status and aggression. I have a friend who's a professor of Evolutionary Psychology at UCLA. We've had discussions on the subject, and he agrees with me that human hierarchy will probably evolve to be more dog-like and less chip-like. There's less cheating and deception in dog societies and they are closer to a true meritocracy. Chimps on the other hand are socially corrupt and based on ever shifting alliances. This is due to the fact that chimps don't need to cooperate with eachother, they only use eachother for protection against predators.

[P7PSP]

First of all, sociology is hardly a "hard science" like electrical engineering. It still has a long way to go before it is properly understood.

Exactly my point. No proof required ergo not a true science.

Second, I'm not making "if frogs had wings" argument. I'm saying that egalitarian societies HAVE existed, therefore it proves their possibility. Nothing theoretical about that.

Similar to breeding a chimera in a laboratory, watching it prematurely age and noting that it died without reaching puberty and declaring it a successful species IMO.

Another thing to take into consideration is the fact that the human brain (and psychology) are still evolving. As time goes on, we shed more and more of our chimp-like thinking that is only concerned with social status and aggression.

The continued success of marketing newer better technology in developed countries, China seeking to become preeminent in world markets and launching its first carrier, tensions between Afghanistan/Pakistan and India /Pakistan, Turkey making itself a player in the ongoing Arab/Israel conflict, Christians versus Muslims in Nigeria, border conflicts between Thailand and Cambodia and myriad other examples all belie that assumption. 

Also evidence of evolution happening is properly viewed in retrospect on a macro scale not inferred to suit one's preferred worldview.

I have a friend who's a professor of Evolutionary Psychology at UCLA. We've had discussions on the subject, and he agrees with me that human hierarchy will probably evolve to be more dog-like and less chip-like. There's less cheating and deception in dog societies and they are closer to a true meritocracy. Chimps on the other hand are socially corrupt and based on ever shifting alliances. This is due to the fact that chimps don't need to cooperate with eachother, they only use eachother for protection against predators.

Your friend agrees with you that humans will probably become more dog like in interacting with each other? That is supposition on both of your parts - hardly a  scientific approach IMO. In the 1960s futurists were predicting flying cars in common use by the 1990s and people wearing Jetson outfits.

Furthermore the top dog controls the other dogs through intimidation and they show acceptance of his authority by getting on the ground and exposing their belly. Humans already have their own  version of this when a new office manager takes over and has the minions rearrange the office furniture because it is "more efficient". That is a combined pissing the bush and assertion through (veneer of polite) growling to let everyone know who is now top dog in the office.
Chimps do cooperate with each other - to take over the group, establish mating rights, control territory and make war on other chimp groups. Review Goodall.

[Calavera]

There's a reason I don't like Ron Paul's policies. He assumes the best of mankind.

[McGiver]

I completely support the premise of occupy wall street.
And I completely agree that we need to end all wars NOW.

[Calavera]

I completely support the premise of occupy wall street.
And I completely agree that we need to end all wars NOW.

Too idealistic.

Wars will always happen as far as our nature remains human.

[McGiver]

I completely support the premise of occupy wall street.
And I completely agree that we need to end all wars NOW.

Too idealistic.

Wars will always happen as far as our nature remains human.

Yes.

However we vote these war mongers into office.  Most people are against wars.  Especially non essential wars that are for profit where only a few receive the benefits.

Human nature- greed and control