Could no longer bite my tongue on this...you know me.

[Pyraxis]

Why don't you just ask. It's pretty hard for anyone to tell you lies when all the evidence is so easy to find.

Hm. Because people aren't that trustworthy, and whenever there's a conflict, they end up getting polarized into their own exclusive opinions which contradict the people on the other side of the conflict. So I'd have to ask everyone in order to get a coherent picture. It makes more sense to just stand back and observe.

[Adam]

People have evidence surely - ie posts they can quote?

If you just observe the fallout of it, then how can you REALLY know what teh initial arguments were?

['Butterflies']

Why don't you just ask. It's pretty hard for anyone to tell you lies when all the evidence is so easy to find.

Hm. Because people aren't that trustworthy, and whenever there's a conflict, they end up getting polarized into their own exclusive opinions which contradict the people on the other side of the conflict. So I'd have to ask everyone in order to get a coherent picture. It makes more sense to just stand back and observe.

Yes, but your obsevations so far seem very flawed.

There are people on both sides here, and AFAIK we all pretty much agree on what happened. Where we disagree is "was what we done on FB wrong?" and "how wrong was my bitchy comment about Pandora?"

[Pyraxis]

If you just observe the fallout of it, then how can you REALLY know what teh initial arguments were?

I guess I can't. Maybe that's what's so confusing about the recent offsite conflicts. I'm not getting on Facebook or AFF to track down what exactly happened, and it's harder to work out without knowing the source.

On the other hand, nobody can read everything everywhere, so sometimes you just have to go on limited knowledge.

[Pyraxis]

There are people on both sides here, and AFAIK we all pretty much agree on what happened. Where we disagree is "was what we done on FB wrong?" and "how wrong was my bitchy comment about Pandora?"

That makes sense.

[Scrapheap]

"Grease Monkey (317) Al Swearengen (1195) - full page of lies In topic Yesterday at 06:33:54 PM "

Seriously?? WTF is this shit?? it makes me doubt the sincerity of everything else you wrote.

[bodie]

Who do you think the "younger cliques" are on here?

That brings up a point i was going to mention actually,  age.   I am an oldee too.  My opinion of the word 'rancidora' is it is a silly made up word.  Probably snigger-worthy to the younger people.  Probably would have sniggered myself if i weren't aware of Les's feelings.   That is because i am old though, and thoughtful,  and had many run ins not unlike this one when i was Butterflies age.

I do not think Butterflies is bad or nasty.  I don't think she sat and tried to think up the most offensive word just to piss Les off.  I think it just came into her head,  she used it and it got a few laughs.   If you notice she is now referring to her as 'pandora' which leads me to believe what i just said to be true.   If she was a nasty little bitch she would be using it now.  She isn't.

I think Les implied it was not just Butterflies actions that pissed him off.  Maybe now is a good time to look at the other things.  I think Butterflies has been hauled over the coals quite a lot now.

['Butterflies']

Who do you think the "younger cliques" are on here?

That brings up a point i was going to mention actually,  age.   I am an oldee too.  My opinion of the word 'rancidora' is it is a silly made up word.  Probably snigger-worthy to the younger people.  Probably would have sniggered myself if i weren't aware of Les's feelings.   That is because i am old though, and thoughtful,  and had many run ins not unlike this one when i was Butterflies age.

I do not think Butterflies is bad or nasty.  I don't think she sat and tried to think up the most offensive word just to piss Les off.  I think it just came into her head,  she used it and it got a few laughs.   If you notice she is now referring to her as 'pandora' which leads me to believe what i just said to be true.   If she was a nasty little bitch she would be using it now.  She isn't.

I think Les implied it was not just Butterflies actions that pissed him off.  Maybe now is a good time to look at the other things.  I think Butterflies has been hauled over the coals quite a lot now.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

I do think that the attention on me is absurd. I done something small wrong a month ago. AFAIK people are only still going on about it because Les is threatening to quit over it.

[Adam]

Exactly. I don't see how terrible this all is really . btw Is he actually quitting btw or just considering it? Have only skimmed thru his posts in here

['Butterflies']

Exactly. I don't see how terrible this all is really . btw Is he actually quitting btw or just considering it? Have only skimmed thru his posts in here

I think he has already left, but keeps coming back to post about the Pandora issue.

[Binty]

Personally, I think Les over-reacted with this whole Pandora thing.

[odeon]

For me, the site is worth defending, and I think if this was anybody other than Les' friend, nobody would have had any issues with what we done

Bullshit. The difference would probably have been that we wouldn't know about it.

[odeon]

Mostly tl:dr, but I do feel that its strange behaviour to claim to be leaving a site because of the drama that has affected your friend, yet return regularly to the site to keep the drama going.
Its never going to die for as long as you keep writing essays on the drama.

Maybe he sees it differently. Maybe he sees that it's a way to defend his friend AND the values of a site he no longer fully recognises?

Maybe we do need to ask ourselves if this is what we want the site to be.

['Butterflies']

Thats bullshit Odeon. There was nowhere near this level of moral outrage when I pulled the stunt with Parakeets wife, and that was a genuinely bad thing.
I didnt see any moral outrage when Les started a thhread of two whales fucking, and claimed it to be CCTV of keet fucking his wife.

This is quickly turning into a site for the easily morally outraged.

[odeon]

You, on the other hand, still seem to be squirming out of wrongdoing and trying to erase it, which suggests to me that you know you went too far.

No. Pretty much the opposite in fact. I got involved in an argument with Steve. We both said some bitchy stuff about each others family. Turns out Steves girlfriend is Les' friend.
It was bitchy, and it was wrong. I have never denied that. By the standard of much of what goes on here though, it was pretty tame. I've done far worse here, and I've received far worse. It is a massive over-reation by some people.

Actually it took you quite a while to do more than to acknowledge that it was "mean". In that particular post you also said "I see no need to apologize, and no apologies will be issued."