Intensity Squared History Guide Joint Project Discussion

[odeon]

Oh, and yet another thing, Pyraxis: regarding objectivity, facts and all that, care to address that part about the facts behind Dunc's opinions about the plank vs yours about Lucifer hacking Intensity? As if they were comparable, which they are not, but I'm willing to play your game for this instance.

What aspect did you want addressed? It seemed clear to me. Though maybe I should have been more specific that McJ was the most outspoken about accusing Lucifer and I personally only suspected it later. At the time I suspected Nman of taking it down deliberately and didn't know about any hacking. In my original post about the history I didn't specify who made any of the accusations, because I wanted to give the impression that the whole thing was a chaotic panic. It was much later after working with Nman to try and get the database back up that I saw his old chatlogs with Lucifer and started to get a better picture of what was going on, on an interpersonal level.

You were implying that your accusations re Lucifer were on the same level with Dunc's opinions about the plank. They are not. What Dunc thought about him at the time is well documented while your accusations are not.

That's the aspect I wanted you to address since you brought it up.

[odeon]

Wow, it's become even more intense.

No wonder the name.

It's old drama. Most of it is between the lines and very unlikely to be resolved anytime soon.

[Calavera]

Check the recently edited post:
http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18560.0.html

Reading through the latest posts in this thread, I notice what seems to be two sides contradicting each other concerning when the debate between McJagger and Lucifer was announced and when Intensity went down the first (and the second time?).

Who got the forum back up running. Neuroman or McJagger?

Pyraxis, would it be ok if I had access to those posts you speak of (as in sending them to me via PM)?

[Callaway]

Check the recently edited post:
http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18560.0.html

Reading through the latest posts in this thread, I notice what seems to be two sides contradicting each other concerning when the debate between McJagger and Lucifer was announced and when Intensity went down the first (and the second time?).

Who got the forum back up running. Neuroman or McJagger?

Pyraxis, would it be ok if I had access to those posts you speak of (as in sending them to me via PM)?

You might want to read this whole thread on WP as opposed to just the one post Pyraxis linked:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt12381.html

In this WP thread, SB2 is McJagger or McMorrison here, vetivert is Vivi or Lucifer here, Neuroman is WolFish or Lazarus here, en_una_isla is Shima or hiroshima here, and hale_bopp has had many names here but I think her current one is Mr. Smith.

Neuroman got the first Intensity back up running (or checked the box that turned the board back on, according to McJagger), but I think when members logged in there, they couldn't see the board and were redirected to Ramoth Harbor, which I think was Vivi's site, then he wanted McJagger to debate Vivi (Lucifer here) concerning the future of Intensity.  McJagger wound up accepting Dunc's offer to host a new Intensity on the same host as the Drivel that would be free of Neuroman's interference, and that's when INTENSITY² started, on April 1, 2006.

Pyraxis is not the only person who encouraged McJagger to accept Dunc's offer, BTW.  There were many others.

You might also want to look at McJagger's callout of Neuroman here, whose posts reverted to tinkerjack when he deleted his account.

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,122.0.html

Pyraxis says that she is speaking for Neuroman here, but I wonder why he can't just speak for himself.  He's a member here and he's the one who has first-hand knowledge of what went on then, not her.

BTW, here's Pyraxis' callout of Lucifer, if you want an idea of the grudge Pyraxis holds against her:

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,5064.0.html

[Calavera]

Thanks again, Callaway. Those were some important and relevant links.

I think WolFish should join us and give his side of the story. I hope he does.

[Pyraxis]

I think WolFish should join us and give his side of the story. I hope he does.

Ok, I'll tell him you and Callaway are looking for him. I don't think he reads most of I². It's hard to get his attention.  But he'd also probably respond if you linked him here from one of the threads he started, like the one in the forum for people with actual problems.

[Pyraxis]

I object when you accuse someone without proof and when you continue to imply it after, as you say, you thought we agreed several pages ago.

There's more than one thing to agree on. I acknowledge that we don't know who or what broke the database. Where do you think I'm implying something else?

I guess you are the one with an agenda, not me.

Everyone has a purpose.

As for all these other calls for proof, what makes you think the other info I posted was meant to convince you of anything? I was providing further information, people will take it as they will.

[Pyraxis]

You were implying that your accusations re Lucifer were on the same level with Dunc's opinions about the plank. They are not. What Dunc thought about him at the time is well documented while your accusations are not.

That's the aspect I wanted you to address since you brought it up.

They weren't my accusations. Check the original post. I didn't name any accusers.

[Pyraxis]

Pyraxis, would it be ok if I had access to those posts you speak of (as in sending them to me via PM)?

Lemme get back to you on that.

[WolFish]

Pyraxis says that she is speaking for Neuroman here, but I wonder why he can't just speak for himself.  He's a member here and he's the one who has first-hand knowledge of what went on then, not her.

He can speak for himself. However, Pyraxis has as close to first hand knowledge as you can get without being Neuroman.
He can speak for himself, except that he can't do it when there are a lot of words and there are a hell of a lot of words here. He would have to have his Jack/Neuroman hat on and he can't find it.

[WolFish]

Thanks again, Callaway. Those were some important and relevant links.

I think WolFish should join us and give his side of the story. I hope he does.

I have always appreciated the opinion of the Abominable SnoCone:

My take on it...

all communities need their seedy bars, even the aspie community. But it doesn't make sense for the seedy bar to be right next to the glitzy respectable corporate office, even if half the employees go right to the seedy bar after work. It would make the corporate office look bad, give a bad first impression. So while I will miss Intensity I can understand the decision. I am sure someone will start a new Intensity-type site elsewhere and I look forward to letting loose again when it starts up

Had I to do it all over again I probably would, except not so many hands in the pot and Intensity on a separate server. And anyone but me to herd the cats. I only work well with the kind that have real fur and claws.

Neurolands was meant as a site where people could network for employment purposes. It was inspired by the failed efforts of another asper to do the same thing. Bob encouraged us to do it, but when the site went up he began encouraging people who were dissatisfied with WP to come there. All it took was one bad WP drama and the place was flooded with refugees.

Silly us, we tried to accommodate them. We cannot live in the real world so we had a marvelous idea. Create a city online. Divert people away from Nlands into places (suburbs=subforums) where they could be refugees or whatever they wanted. We asked for ideas. Intensity was one of them. Gestalt was another. Their leaders were given forums linked to Nlands.

Vivi objected to the way Intensity was being run. There were several attempts to try to divert her attention - she was given Ramoth Harbor and also set up as advisor to Gestalt. She ranted to Nman about how harmful Intensity was, how badly people there were treating women. Nman went and looked and liked what he saw so he refused to take it down - and yes, she did ask. Somewhere (because gmail deletes nothing) we have the archive of that.

Shortly after he refused, the site broke. And meanwhile, our techie, having had a misfortunate meeting with one of the other leaders of Nlands (there were 5), left. He reappeared long enough to express dismay at the turn of events (by then Bob was railing at Nman everywhere in public) and then he left for good. He refused to help. That left Nman, who was by then very ill, trying to fix the forum and keep his job which was being threatened by his supervisor who could be described as a bully. Nlands and Intensity were both broken. Gestalt, Ramoth Harbor, and another site (Sockpuppet Theater?) were unaffected. Nlands had a corrupted database entry. The same fix applied to Intensity fixed only part of the problem.

Bob, after much abusive language and disclosing of information previously agreed upon to be private, left to create this forum (I-squared). The Gestalt owner declared that Nman was trying to control her site because he asked her to display the Nlands logo along with her own (the subplot there was that she felt he was ignoring her advances, which, since they were personal and not of business nature, he did). She left after doing the same sort of thing that Bob did though on a smaller scale. She accused Nman of being controlling, etc.

Meanwhile, there were only two people left to run Nlands. Nman was literally sick and tired, so Wolf put on his construction helmet and did what he could. Vivi spent a lot of time messing with Nlands by doing heavily sexual flirting in inappropriate threads with one of the few people who managed to get himself banned from I2. He was stalking Shima, another leader of Nlands. A lot of people left. Some went to other places, some went back to WP and some came here.

Intensity was meant as a place where people could learn to stand up for themselves, to fight at least the verbal battle. The history of its start is on Nlands in one of the forums there.
The bottom line is that there were too many cooks, including one who stuck her head in the window and tried to get the whole stew thrown out.
Our mistake was in trying to use that as a diversion while we tried to fix something that was broken beyond our ability to fix it. We trusted no one to help (part of the same mistake). That meant it was about a year and a half before I realized how the database had been sabotaged. Someone had broken it; it wasn't us, but there was no one around to tell. Everyone was here by then.

There is a lot more to the story but I can't do it right now. Maybe later you can ask me questions. One of the reasons I don't come here a lot is that without Jack/Nman hat I have a hard time figuring out what to say. I'm seriously autistic.

Pyraxis is welcome to speak for me. She might be idealistic, opinionated and pugilistic, but she's intelligent and she doesn't lie. And even if it takes her a few days or a few weeks, she can ken a lot of words.
I on the other hand, now have a severe headache and will have to kill countless zombies and innocent plants until the painkillers kick in.

[odeon]

I object when you accuse someone without proof and when you continue to imply it after, as you say, you thought we agreed several pages ago.

There's more than one thing to agree on. I acknowledge that we don't know who or what broke the database. Where do you think I'm implying something else?

I guess you are the one with an agenda, not me.

Everyone has a purpose.

As for all these other calls for proof, what makes you think the other info I posted was meant to convince you of anything? I was providing further information, people will take it as they will.

Actually you were doing what you always do, manipulating and shit-stirring, furthering your own agenda. The same with the Lucifer callout, ages ago, the same when you always attack me and others on your blacklist when given a chance. Don't make it sound like something altruistic, "providing further information", when it's not. It's in your MO to insinuate and to imply, and then to take a few steps back when your motives are questioned.

People can read for themselves, I guess.

[odeon]

Wolf--how was the db sabotaged?

[Pyraxis]

Actually you were doing what you always do, manipulating and shit-stirring, furthering your own agenda. The same with the Lucifer callout, ages ago, the same when you always attack me and others on your blacklist when given a chance. Don't make it sound like something altruistic, "providing further information", when it's not. It's in your MO to insinuate and to imply, and then to take a few steps back when your motives are questioned.

People can read for themselves, I guess.

I think it's amusing and telling that you're practicing pattern-spotting on me. What if I told you that you were right? Would you then start pattern-spotting the rest of this drama? Because that might actually be worth it to me.

I honestly was giving more information for the sake of information, because I was glad that Calavera was interested. That was one purpose though, and I usually have more than one.

[Callaway]

Thanks again, Callaway. Those were some important and relevant links.

I think WolFish should join us and give his side of the story. I hope he does.

I have always appreciated the opinion of the Abominable SnoCone:

My take on it...

all communities need their seedy bars, even the aspie community. But it doesn't make sense for the seedy bar to be right next to the glitzy respectable corporate office, even if half the employees go right to the seedy bar after work. It would make the corporate office look bad, give a bad first impression. So while I will miss Intensity I can understand the decision. I am sure someone will start a new Intensity-type site elsewhere and I look forward to letting loose again when it starts up

Had I to do it all over again I probably would, except not so many hands in the pot and Intensity on a separate server. And anyone but me to herd the cats. I only work well with the kind that have real fur and claws.

Neurolands was meant as a site where people could network for employment purposes. It was inspired by the failed efforts of another asper to do the same thing. Bob encouraged us to do it, but when the site went up he began encouraging people who were dissatisfied with WP to come there. All it took was one bad WP drama and the place was flooded with refugees.

Silly us, we tried to accommodate them. We cannot live in the real world so we had a marvelous idea. Create a city online. Divert people away from Nlands into places (suburbs=subforums) where they could be refugees or whatever they wanted. We asked for ideas. Intensity was one of them. Gestalt was another. Their leaders were given forums linked to Nlands.

Vivi objected to the way Intensity was being run. There were several attempts to try to divert her attention - she was given Ramoth Harbor and also set up as advisor to Gestalt. She ranted to Nman about how harmful Intensity was, how badly people there were treating women. Nman went and looked and liked what he saw so he refused to take it down - and yes, she did ask. Somewhere (because gmail deletes nothing) we have the archive of that.

Shortly after he refused, the site broke. And meanwhile, our techie, having had a misfortunate meeting with one of the other leaders of Nlands (there were 5), left. He reappeared long enough to express dismay at the turn of events (by then Bob was railing at Nman everywhere in public) and then he left for good. He refused to help. That left Nman, who was by then very ill, trying to fix the forum and keep his job which was being threatened by his supervisor who could be described as a bully. Nlands and Intensity were both broken. Gestalt, Ramoth Harbor, and another site (Sockpuppet Theater?) were unaffected. Nlands had a corrupted database entry. The same fix applied to Intensity fixed only part of the problem.

Bob, after much abusive language and disclosing of information previously agreed upon to be private, left to create this forum (I-squared). The Gestalt owner declared that Nman was trying to control her site because he asked her to display the Nlands logo along with her own (the subplot there was that she felt he was ignoring her advances, which, since they were personal and not of business nature, he did). She left after doing the same sort of thing that Bob did though on a smaller scale. She accused Nman of being controlling, etc.

Meanwhile, there were only two people left to run Nlands. Nman was literally sick and tired, so Wolf put on his construction helmet and did what he could. Vivi spent a lot of time messing with Nlands by doing heavily sexual flirting in inappropriate threads with one of the few people who managed to get himself banned from I2. He was stalking Shima, another leader of Nlands. A lot of people left. Some went to other places, some went back to WP and some came here.

Intensity was meant as a place where people could learn to stand up for themselves, to fight at least the verbal battle. The history of its start is on Nlands in one of the forums there.
The bottom line is that there were too many cooks, including one who stuck her head in the window and tried to get the whole stew thrown out.
Our mistake was in trying to use that as a diversion while we tried to fix something that was broken beyond our ability to fix it. We trusted no one to help (part of the same mistake). That meant it was about a year and a half before I realized how the database had been sabotaged. Someone had broken it; it wasn't us, but there was no one around to tell. Everyone was here by then.

There is a lot more to the story but I can't do it right now. Maybe later you can ask me questions. One of the reasons I don't come here a lot is that without Jack/Nman hat I have a hard time figuring out what to say. I'm seriously autistic.

Pyraxis is welcome to speak for me. She might be idealistic, opinionated and pugilistic, but she's intelligent and she doesn't lie. And even if it takes her a few days or a few weeks, she can ken a lot of words.
I on the other hand, now have a severe headache and will have to kill countless zombies and innocent plants until the painkillers kick in.

I'm sorry about your headache, but I'm glad that you answered, Wolfish.

I remember Vivi being an advisor to Gestalt and I remember her flirting on the Neurolands with JC/Hiro/whatever his screen name was there at the time.  At the time I wondered why she was doing it and later I wondered if it was meant to make you jealous.

When you have time, I would really like to know just how the database was sabotaged.  I'm guessing that you mean that sabotage implies that it was a deliberate act and that you didn't do it?