Author Topic: I had a dream! tonight  (Read 4173 times)

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Offline Al Swearegen

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #60 on: September 09, 2011, 01:25:30 PM »
Dream I had nine months ago

I dreamed it was a moonlit night and I was on top of a cliff face. My
back was against a big boulder and my arms were trapped by a large
reinforced shackle that was electronically sealed.
I had a few metres of rock to the edge of the chasm in front of me.
About 30 metres across the chasm in front of me was another cliff face
and a whole heap of military type screaming that I was a werewolf and
about to change.
I was screaming and crying and pleading my innocence. They were all
aiming their machine guns intent on blasting me to bits if or when I
changed and hated me. I suspected they may regardless.
They were waiting for the convulsions and so on.
I cried and pleaded and felt sick. I suppressed everything and kept
fighting against their accusations......and exposing that they were
correct and that the transformation had begun already. I ought to have
been beyond comprehension or making sense or doing anything but
becoming Wolfen. Yet though I felt the changes taking place I kept up
the pretense.
Desperately knowing soon it would be beyond me and they would see my
change and I would be pinned and a thrashing target.
Suddenly and at the final moments one of the guys mumbled and pulled
down a lever and realised by arms...that were now hairy. At that
moment my face changed and I was running in all too suddenly wolf like
legs. I was massive and energetic and muscular beyond belief and
leaped across the chasm. In seconds this took and they were all frozen
with fear seeing this shape spring across 30 metres towards them some
fired erratic aimless blasts.
I woke knowing that they were all as good as dead. The lot of them.
They could do no more to me. They were now the ones scared and they
had every reason to be. I was happy to kill them by tooth and claw in
many instinctual and horrifying way and was free.

Considering what I have been through in the last 4 years or so then
finding the symbolism is not too hard. :)
I2 today is not i2 of yesteryear. It is a knitting circle. Those that participate be they nice or asshats know their place and the price to be there. Odeon is the overlord

.Benevolent if you toe the line.

Think it is I2 of old? Even Odeon is not so delusional as to think otherwise. He may on occasionally pretend otherwise but his base is that knitting circle.

Censoring/banning/restricting/moderating myself, Calanadale & Scrapheap were all not his finest moments.

How to apologise to Scrap

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #61 on: September 09, 2011, 02:24:35 PM »
Butterflies,
what response are you hoping for/expecting/fearing?
"oh, well in that case, i completely endorse the attack on civilians!"

my stance is:
ill accept an organizations "right" to attack gvt forces.
i do not accept an organization attacking civilians.

semantics in who is which splinter group, which did what, where and when isnt gonna change that :S

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #62 on: September 09, 2011, 02:26:47 PM »
Dream I had nine months ago

I dreamed it was a moonlit night and I was on top of a cliff face. My
back was against a big boulder and my arms were trapped by a large
reinforced shackle that was electronically sealed.
I had a few metres of rock to the edge of the chasm in front of me.
About 30 metres across the chasm in front of me was another cliff face
and a whole heap of military type screaming that I was a werewolf and
about to change.
I was screaming and crying and pleading my innocence. They were all
aiming their machine guns intent on blasting me to bits if or when I
changed and hated me. I suspected they may regardless.
They were waiting for the convulsions and so on.
I cried and pleaded and felt sick. I suppressed everything and kept
fighting against their accusations......and exposing that they were
correct and that the transformation had begun already. I ought to have
been beyond comprehension or making sense or doing anything but
becoming Wolfen. Yet though I felt the changes taking place I kept up
the pretense.
Desperately knowing soon it would be beyond me and they would see my
change and I would be pinned and a thrashing target.
Suddenly and at the final moments one of the guys mumbled and pulled
down a lever and realised by arms...that were now hairy. At that
moment my face changed and I was running in all too suddenly wolf like
legs. I was massive and energetic and muscular beyond belief and
leaped across the chasm. In seconds this took and they were all frozen
with fear seeing this shape spring across 30 metres towards them some
fired erratic aimless blasts.
I woke knowing that they were all as good as dead. The lot of them.
They could do no more to me. They were now the ones scared and they
had every reason to be. I was happy to kill them by tooth and claw in
many instinctual and horrifying way and was free.

Considering what I have been through in the last 4 years or so then
finding the symbolism is not too hard. :)

kickass dream! :D
really cool

Offline 'Butterflies'

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #63 on: September 09, 2011, 03:13:26 PM »
Butterflies,
what response are you hoping for/expecting/fearing?
"oh, well in that case, i completely endorse the attack on civilians!"

my stance is:
ill accept an organizations "right" to attack gvt forces.
i do not accept an organization attacking civilians.

semantics in who is which splinter group, which did what, where and when isnt gonna change that :S

I was calling bullshit on you because you seem happy to sit in your house and shout for terrorism in other parts of the world that you appear to know nothing about, and then get all upset when you get a dose of it in your own country.

TBH, if I'd hoped for any response from you, I'd have hoped that the Norwegian incident would have given you a small chance to see what it's like living under the shadow of terrorism, and maybe changed your mind a little.

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2011, 04:16:42 PM »
Butterflies,
what response are you hoping for/expecting/fearing?
"oh, well in that case, i completely endorse the attack on civilians!"

my stance is:
ill accept an organizations "right" to attack gvt forces.
i do not accept an organization attacking civilians.

semantics in who is which splinter group, which did what, where and when isnt gonna change that :S

I was calling bullshit on you because you seem happy to sit in your house and shout for terrorism in other parts of the world that you appear to know nothing about, and then get all upset when you get a dose of it in your own country.

TBH, if I'd hoped for any response from you, I'd have hoped that the Norwegian incident would have given you a small chance to see what it's like living under the shadow of terrorism, and maybe changed your mind a little.

since when do i "seem" happy about terrorism?

what part of what ive said has been bullshit? that i am against terrorism? or that i am against the idea of irish resistance? i explained that to you the first time you "called me out" on it.

i want to know what your theory is:
do i LIKE terrorism, but lie about it to hide something?
do i say i "like ira" just to brag, but have never really read about them?
what exactly are you "calling out"?

whatever you call yourself, IRA, ETA, CIA, IDF:
if you slaughter civilians, i disaprove.
if you keep your attacks targeted at gvt forces, ill let whoever wins win.
^i cant get it any clearer. its not about ira or not ira, but the above. i dont care what they call themselves, just so long as they dont target civilians. i am against evilness :b
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 04:22:38 PM by ZEGH8578 »

Offline 'Butterflies'

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2011, 04:35:01 PM »
Butterflies,
what response are you hoping for/expecting/fearing?
"oh, well in that case, i completely endorse the attack on civilians!"

my stance is:
ill accept an organizations "right" to attack gvt forces.
i do not accept an organization attacking civilians.

semantics in who is which splinter group, which did what, where and when isnt gonna change that :S

I was calling bullshit on you because you seem happy to sit in your house and shout for terrorism in other parts of the world that you appear to know nothing about, and then get all upset when you get a dose of it in your own country.

TBH, if I'd hoped for any response from you, I'd have hoped that the Norwegian incident would have given you a small chance to see what it's like living under the shadow of terrorism, and maybe changed your mind a little.

since when do i "seem" happy about terrorism?

what part of what ive said has been bullshit? that i am against terrorism? or that i am against the idea of irish resistance? i explained that to you the first time you "called me out" on it.

i want to know what your theory is:
do i LIKE terrorism, but lie about it to hide something?
do i say i "like ira" just to brag, but have never really read about them?
what exactly are you "calling out"?

I said I called bullshit. I have never called you out.

I'm not fully following what you're asking here.

All I can really tell you is that ages ago you made a comment about being supportive of the modern-day Irish Republican terrorist organizations actions, because you felt that they caused problems for the British government. Or words to that effect (I think).
Sadly, I can't find the quote, although I have looked for it.


You then made this comment yesterday:
Quote
yeah, but the end of the world is very big, and to them, its all about jesus. im more worried about those who want "more mundane" wars and atrocities around themselves.
like when breivik killed those 70+ teens at utøya, i wonder hooow many norwegians who thought "fucking awesome" secretly to themselves. out of 5 million, i dont think 5 000 would be too high a potential number.

It pissed me off slightly that you are happy to condone the actions of groups that you appear to know almost nothing about in other countries, but condemn those who "want wars and atrocities around themselves" when it happens in Norway.

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2011, 04:38:52 PM »
what happened in norway was, if you havent noticed, a systematic, execution style, one-by-one killing, of almost 80 civilians.

i feel like im forced to spell out, what should go without saying:
i never approve of the slaughter of civilians, be it in norway, ireland, rwanda, canada, chile, uruguay, anywhere. even countries im not mentioning, anywhere. congo, mali, india, china. i never approve of civilians being slaughtered. anywhere. japan. russia. iran, iraq, ... anywhere... anywhere...

i cannot comprehend if you should still be confused after this...
"but you said"
no.

i do NOT approve of the slaughter of civilians. anywhere. i never did.
"but you said"
no.

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2011, 07:15:41 PM »
No point supporting groups that have no relation to you, to be honest.

A friend of mine is an IRA/Sinn Fein supporter and had similar talks with him before, he agrees there was atrocities on both sides and in general tries to keep an unbiased view for the most part. However, he still desires Ireland to be a united nation and believes that the struggle for it will eventually get to that goal.

I desire N. Ireland to cut ties from both Ireland and the UK, to become an independent secular nation on it's own right. I think this because N. Ireland's culture is different enough to be considered a separate country, it's neither like the rest of the UK or Ireland. This way it sorts out 3 issues in 1:
- Republicans will be more happier since there are no ties to the UK
- Unionists will be more happier since there are no ties to Ireland
- Secular nation means no favor over Catholics or Protestants, meaning eventually less discrimination, fighting and more people becoming non-religious.

I see little point in Irish people wanting the whole island to themselves, you don't see Scotland complaining because half of Britain isn't theirs despite their aim for independence.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 07:18:29 PM by Schleed »

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2011, 07:33:00 PM »
No point supporting groups that have no relation to you, to be honest.

A friend of mine is an IRA/Sinn Fein supporter and had similar talks with him before, he agrees there was atrocities on both sides and in general tries to keep an unbiased view for the most part. However, he still desires Ireland to be a united nation and believes that the struggle for it will eventually get to that goal.

I desire N. Ireland to cut ties from both Ireland and the UK, to become an independent secular nation on it's own right. I think this because N. Ireland's culture is different enough to be considered a separate country, it's neither like the rest of the UK or Ireland. This way it sorts out 3 issues in 1:
- Republicans will be more happier since there are no ties to the UK
- Unionists will be more happier since there are no ties to Ireland
- Secular nation means no favor over Catholics or Protestants, meaning eventually less discrimination, fighting and more people becoming non-religious.

I see little point in Irish people wanting the whole island to themselves, you don't see Scotland complaining because half of Britain isn't theirs despite their aim for independence.

I completely agree about N.Ireland becoming independent, and I agree fully with your reasons. Half of the country will always be unhappy as long as we are part of either Ireland or Britain. At least as an independent country, both sides could unite. I don't know why it has hardly ever been suggested as a viable compromise. I think one Unionist party did make the suggestion years ago, but it was as a protest against the British government, rather than a serious proposal.

I don't care whether N.Ireland stays part of Britain, or becomes part of Ireland. I just despise the use of violence from either side. I especially dispair of anyone who still believes in violence after the ceasefire. They aren't helping their own cause, and they're just ensuring that this country will never recover. Sadly, that appears to be their goal. They don't want any prospect of N.I being successful. They'd rather see it ruined if they aren't getting their own way.

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2011, 07:53:24 PM »
The problem with the Unionist party who mentioned it was that they wanted it independent, but also Protestant dominated. That will bring the same issues, but would give Ireland/UK an excuse to bomb the fuck out of it if shit happened.

I think it never has been mentioned since because originally it was a Unionist idea and thus giving the wrong idea to people, but my idea would be for it to be secular and non-religious.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 07:55:14 PM by Schleed »

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #70 on: September 09, 2011, 08:27:15 PM »
realistically, i acknowledge an independent northern ireland is much more feasible than a united ireland.
wholeness of the island is mostly a cultural/cosmetic issue
kosovo was basically a northern-ireland-of-yugoslavia, a subnational entity of albanians, waving albanian flags, wanting to be albanians, and theres albania, right across the border, and still theres no such thing as a unification going on.
compared to most countries come and gone, peaceful unifications are so rare, i can only think of germany.

and butterflies, you know, next time you wonder wether or not i am for or against genocide and terrorism, please, give me the benefit of the doubt, will you :]

Offline 'Butterflies'

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #71 on: September 09, 2011, 08:42:49 PM »
realistically, i acknowledge an independent northern ireland is much more feasible than a united ireland.
wholeness of the island is mostly a cultural/cosmetic issue
kosovo was basically a northern-ireland-of-yugoslavia, a subnational entity of albanians, waving albanian flags, wanting to be albanians, and theres albania, right across the border, and still theres no such thing as a unification going on.
compared to most countries come and gone, peaceful unifications are so rare, i can only think of germany.

and butterflies, you know, next time you wonder wether or not i am for or against genocide and terrorism, please, give me the benefit of the doubt, will you :]

I never said you supported genocide. I know you don't.

I've searched and searched for your original quote, but I can't find it.

From what I remember, you said you supported the actions of the PIRA/RIRA/CIRA. I might be wrong though, because no matter how hard I try, I just can't find it.


It seems impossible to condone the actions of PIRA/RIRA/CIRA, while condemning Breivik. He just happens to be better at it than PIRA/RIRA/CIRA.

I am sorry if I have wrongly remembered your post, and you have never expressed support or sympathy for PIRA/RIRA/CIRA.


Edit: Also, don't get the wrong idea. I have no problem with the goals of the IRA. I have a huge problem with the use of terrorism to achieve those goals.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 08:44:42 PM by Butterflies »

Offline bodie

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2011, 07:34:56 AM »
I was reading this with interest last night, and wanted to reply but
fell asleep :zoinks:

Just wanted to comment about Northern Ireland and the fact there
were atrocities on both sides.

The incident that sticks out in my mind is that of 'Bobby Sands' and the 1981 hunger strikes. 
All i can say is that the handling of it by the British Government was appalling.  Thatcher may well claim victory over the strikers who were demanding they be returned to special category status (political prisoners) but she proved what a cold hearted bitch she really was.  She lost her global respect.  She made no effort
for a resolution.  She could have quite easily made some negotiations - she didn't even try!   Her words on the matter
was something like "Crime is crime and can not be political"

I only mention it, as it stands out to me because the hunger strikers were 'suffering' themselves and not, like the bombings,
inflicting it upon any other person. 

I think the Prime Minister (Thatcher) had a duty to try and
resolve it but she wasn't interested in peace in Northern Ireland.  Her predecessors did at least take the role with some degree of
effort.  Even John Major made some effort to negotiate with
the political wings of the IRA.  Tony Blair played an even bigger
role and did devote much time on the issues.  Thatcher didn't
give two shit's about it.  Bitch. 

That was all i wanted to say,  i have never even been to Ireland
or Northern Ireland so it is difficult for someone like me to understand enough to have a valid opinion.  I just felt bad that
our elected Prime Minister did a piss poor job and ten people
died in a prison hospital. :thumbdn:

 
blah blah blah

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #73 on: September 10, 2011, 12:04:18 PM »
realistically, i acknowledge an independent northern ireland is much more feasible than a united ireland.
wholeness of the island is mostly a cultural/cosmetic issue
kosovo was basically a northern-ireland-of-yugoslavia, a subnational entity of albanians, waving albanian flags, wanting to be albanians, and theres albania, right across the border, and still theres no such thing as a unification going on.
compared to most countries come and gone, peaceful unifications are so rare, i can only think of germany.

and butterflies, you know, next time you wonder wether or not i am for or against genocide and terrorism, please, give me the benefit of the doubt, will you :]

I never said you supported genocide. I know you don't.

I've searched and searched for your original quote, but I can't find it.

From what I remember, you said you supported the actions of the PIRA/RIRA/CIRA. I might be wrong though, because no matter how hard I try, I just can't find it.


It seems impossible to condone the actions of PIRA/RIRA/CIRA, while condemning Breivik. He just happens to be better at it than PIRA/RIRA/CIRA.

I am sorry if I have wrongly remembered your post, and you have never expressed support or sympathy for PIRA/RIRA/CIRA.


Edit: Also, don't get the wrong idea. I have no problem with the goals of the IRA. I have a huge problem with the use of terrorism to achieve those goals.

thats what i am saying dearie.... :D
also, if _I_ remember correctly, i was dissapointed at the notion of a complete disarmament, of whichever splinter faction of the IRA was left...
if you understood this as "damn, now they cant massacre civilians anymore:/" then that was NOT my mindset.
look at libya. their cause is being won - purely - by weapons.
strictly speaking, even exploding a car, to destroy a building, IS "okay", as long as you give adequate warnings first. to many this sounds silly, "who'd call to warn about a bomb?", well, the IRA have often done it, the ETA routinely do it - precisely to avoid civilian deaths. precisely so. the goal of their attack IS the government. to cause COST.
and if that doesnt work, engage military units.
i know i sound like im trying to show off or something, by accepting insurgency against military units, but its part of "freedom fights" that we love so much, to attack soldiers. libyan rebels are KILLLING people, and we are supporting them - cus they are killing _the soldiers_ who are defending the opposing regime. sometimes this becomes inevitable.

by disarming that part of the IRA, it seemed to me, like they doomed the entire cause. that was what bothered me.
i never condoned violence against civilians, and i KNOW irish insurgents, under many various IRA-names, have attacked civilians, and i think about them like anybody who does such stuff, they are psychopaths AND theyre idiots for undermining their cause.
now do you understand me!? :D

finally, my support went for the "ira in general", primarily their goal, and secondarily their use of force to achieve it. Again, read: force, without reading "civilian massacres". as many civilians as has died (over 1500), just as many soldiers have died. to me, it "goes without saying" that one must condemn the civilian losses, but someone are also "doing it right", when they take the fight where it "ought to be", in a battlefield with soldiers.
if you understood me as specifically supporting that specific group, im not even sure who the hell they are, apart from being one of many ira splinter-groups.

i just never added "btw i oppose the targeting of civilians!", cus i find it redundant :]
i guess ill add a lot of stuff around the forum...
"hi how are ya! btw i oppose civilian massacres! i did finish college, squid! ive had two jobs, three if you count half a year at the science museum. i dont smoke weed all day or even every day. i wrote 6 books, working on a 7th. i have plans for the future, believe it or not. when i say i have no friends, i exaggerate, i have a few friends. i dont recieve welfare per se, but disability payments."

/rant...
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 12:24:54 PM by ZEGH8578 »

Offline 'Butterflies'

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Re: I had a dream! tonight
« Reply #74 on: September 10, 2011, 12:07:01 PM »
I was reading this with interest last night, and wanted to reply but
fell asleep :zoinks:

Just wanted to comment about Northern Ireland and the fact there
were atrocities on both sides.

The incident that sticks out in my mind is that of 'Bobby Sands' and the 1981 hunger strikes. 
All i can say is that the handling of it by the British Government was appalling.  Thatcher may well claim victory over the strikers who were demanding they be returned to special category status (political prisoners) but she proved what a cold hearted bitch she really was.  She lost her global respect.  She made no effort
for a resolution.  She could have quite easily made some negotiations - she didn't even try!   Her words on the matter
was something like "Crime is crime and can not be political"

I only mention it, as it stands out to me because the hunger strikers were 'suffering' themselves and not, like the bombings,
inflicting it upon any other person. 

I think the Prime Minister (Thatcher) had a duty to try and
resolve it but she wasn't interested in peace in Northern Ireland.  Her predecessors did at least take the role with some degree of
effort.  Even John Major made some effort to negotiate with
the political wings of the IRA.  Tony Blair played an even bigger
role and did devote much time on the issues.  Thatcher didn't
give two shit's about it.  Bitch. 

That was all i wanted to say,  i have never even been to Ireland
or Northern Ireland so it is difficult for someone like me to understand enough to have a valid opinion.  I just felt bad that
our elected Prime Minister did a piss poor job and ten people
died in a prison hospital. :thumbdn:


I oppose terrorism and violence on both sides. I am certainly not a Unionist by any stretch of the imagination. I am strictly neutral on whether N.I should be part of Britain or Ireland.

The discussion I am having with Zegh is because of a much earlier post of his, where I felt he was being supportive of the post-ceasefire Republican terrorist groups current activities. And then complained a day or two ago  "im more worried about those who want "more mundane" wars and atrocities around themselves," in relation to the Utoya attack. I felt it was hypocritaical to be supportive of terrorism in other countries, and then complain when it happens in your own.

Please understand. To be opposed to the actions of the IRA does not mean that you support the "Loyalist side." It does not mean that you think there was a "good," and a "bad" side during the troubles.

The people who commit the terrorist attacks now, that I felt Zegh was being supportive of, are not even the "IRA". The IRA have announced a permenant ceasefire. The splinter groups that are causing trouble now do not even have the support of the Repuplican community that they claim to represent. Their only goal appears to be to drag the country back into a war again, and completely split Loyalist and Nationalist communities at a time when all good people should be promoting unity. This is why I am disgusted by the actions of these groups, and have no time for anybody who supports them.