Forum Darwinism

[Al Swearegen]

True, but you can equally resort to the same psyops strategies on an unmoderated forum for trolling purposes, and you'll find it's more challenging to manipulate the community if you're too new. This is because people are usually less naive on a place where there's no moderators or strict rules to protect them from undesirables.

From my experience, I find it easier to exploit forums with moderation than without.

I tried the frontal assault thing on WP's mods when I first got there, then after I got banned I got smarter about dealing with them.  In an unmoderated forum I might have never come into conflict with moderators in the first place and never been banned, but I also might never have learned how to deal with authority figures without directly conflicting with them.  Which is a more exploitable configuration I think depends on the specific mods and the specific goal, not to mention the specific forum and it's members.  I don't think I could really generalize too much there, though my personal preference is for minimal moderation if any, since I'm not a big fan of unchecked authority.  Sure, it can be manipulated in some cases, but better yet is not having to deal with it at all.

I'd be curious to know if the people on unmoderated forums are less naive to start, or if they get that way through exposure to the wild, so to speak.  I work with other Aspies IRL and the naive thing can be a real problem, so I'm always looking at how different people deal with it.

I can only speak for myself and what I am and have been on the forums from day dot.

I have always been opinionated on forums and outspoken.

I have sometimes been praised for this and sometimes condemned.

IRL? I am a person that does not bring too much attention to themselves.
At work for example I do my bit and make very superficial efforts to get on with the work crowd and be normal. Enough that they do not think me particularly weird or introverted and not enough to be overly social and show my inadequacies. I fly under the radar. I do not get into office politics and who is fucking who and who is paying the rent because I don't care.
I am self-directed and somewhat foward and unsubtle about making sure that my work is how I want it and the routine that kills some works fine with me.
At the same stage if a boss wants to lay the law or give me a hard time over anything, I go fucking hard back at them. They are usually surprised and not happy with the result. Working long term anywhere (such as my current job) they appreciate that the best way of dealing with me is by working with me and giving clear goals and expectations and paramters and letting me go.
That is generally me in life. I am fair and casual and nice. Try it on with me and i go from nice bloke to arsehole pretty quickly

['Butterflies']

Ah, yes, you were brilliant when storming in to defend the fundie fanboy. Not. You were called on and pretty much destroyed.

Sorry, I don't buy any of this, but I guess you already guessed as much.

Not my best work admittedly, I started out with one idea in mind and got off topic and then sandbagged by outside accusations.  Teach me to post after a strong cigar, those things do get me a bit worked up sometimes. 
All things considered though, I did come in here and take an unpopular position, defend a hated figure, piss a bunch of people off, get accused of treachery and beat that back, and all that happened was some nasty comments, getting the custom rank of "tattle tale" (seriously, ouch), and my name in pink.  Besides which, it's all drama for the mill, right?  Where's the fun if no one occasionally stumbles in and takes a few swings?

I don't think you have been ridiculed for defending an unpopular POV, or defending an unpopular person. At least, I haven't had a problem with you for either of those reasons.

Remember Dox. Your first posts were strongly criticizing the trolling of Parakeet by others on this board. You then proceeded to claim that was all justified, because he came to this site of is own volition. In effect you were only here to complain about something I did 6 months ago. Something you have already discussed with me, and that I agreed with you, and stopped what I was doing.

How did you think I would react to someone I don't know, coming on to this site to attack something I done 6 months ago, that never even involved them, after having discussed it with me at the time?

Even Jack, who agreed that what I did to Parakeet was shit, tried to tell you your behaviour was innappropriate.

You have appeared totally confused, completely out of your depth, and lacking any common sense. All while declaring yourself to be some kind of master-wordsmith uber-troll.

The only person responsible for the behaviour towards you, is yourself. If you had taken a minute to think of what you were doing before charging in, you would have realised that you weren't bringing a valid point to the table. You were simply bringing FAIL on an epic scale.

Please dont take this as hatred towards you from me. I think you're a decent guy, albeit with an amusingly high regard for your apparently limited capabilities, and I'm always willing to give people a second chance. Just understand, any ridicule you have suffered here is 100% self-inflicted.

["couldbecousin"]

In life you can say what you want to people and then deal with the consequences.

Sure you can, but sometimes the consequences are not what you intended because you said something too bluntly, not clearly, at the wrong time, etc.  People are generally pretty powerless online, you can say whatever you want to whoever you want without having to worry too much about a real life asskicking or much else in the way of offline consequences, it's just the nature of the beast.  A moderated forum is more like real life in that respect, you have to observe social norms or suffer official consequences, where here it's more like vigilante justice.  I've got nothing particularly against vigilante justice, it's just not an accurate representation of how most societies function these days.  Hence why I advocate learning the soft skills, you'll use them a whole lot more than the hard ones when it comes to real life.

 I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that a lot of us already have soft skills, due to years of training by our
 parents, teachers, employers and peers.  I was raised to be exceptionally meek and submissive.  You might say my
 whole real life has been strictly moderated.  I certainly didn't need to learn manners and restraint online; by the time
 I got my first computer at age 40    I had spent a lifetime stifling my angry impulses and deferring to others,
 very seldom standing up for myself.  I've always been flooded with shame when criticized or berated, and thought that
 was the only "right" response.  The members of this site have taught me that it's not necessary to feel annihilated by
 someone else's anger, that it's possible to stay confident in the face of uncensored hostility from an opponent.  I'll never
 be a badass, but I'm a little braver for being here.   

['Butterflies']

Good on you Cbc. Glad we've had a good influence in you.

["couldbecousin"]

Good on you Cbc. Glad we've had a good influence in you.

 You are one of the biggest influences actually, you don't take shit from anyone, yet are willing to apologize when you
 think you have been wrong.  To see humility AND confidence in one person has been very inspiring to me. 

[Al Swearegen]

I agree. I think that values are what make us. That which we hold as true or true to our sense of being out to be defended.
Why take shit from people...anyone?
At the same time if you have said or done something that runs in the face of your own standards or expectations of self, then why not apologise? Makes damn good sense, unless your ego/pride is that fickle.
I like Butterflies a lot too and I don't think her a soft touch, by any measure

[midlifeaspie]

I find the concept of "internet as a training ground for real life" to be kind of sad.  I think most people prefer to use real life as a training ground for real life.  I know that goes against some very ingrained mindset generated from spending hours a day over at WP.  I use the internet for a change of pace, not to try and hone my masterful skillz so next time my boss tells me to wear a pink shirt to deliver a pizza I can do a better job arguing against it.  I can actually see how that would be really useful to you, but as a corporate executive it doesn't offer me much that I don't already get in board meetings and contract negotiations.

[Al Swearegen]

The way I most may at best show slight differences depending on my real life circumstances. Am I tired and likely to ramble off on tangent a little more than I normally do? Am I bored and likely to fan the flames of a dispute? Am I pissed of or physical sick or hurt and liable to argue a bit more? Am I happy and likely to be a bit ridiculous? Am I a bit drunk and about to hand the keybboard over to the bourbon fairies?
To say it goes the other way around? Nope. The internet shut down for the night, means I have bed beckonning and there is nothing that can not wait til I post next night. Hell in the meantime real life is.....well real.

[Calavera]

To me, Internet is real life. And that's what's important. Nobody argue with me against it.

['Butterflies']

Good on you Cbc. Glad we've had a good influence in you.

 You are one of the biggest influences actually, you don't take shit from anyone, yet are willing to apologize when you
 think you have been wrong.  To see humility AND confidence in one person has been very inspiring to me. 

Thanks

I'm genuinely touched, and don't know what to say. I've set the computer up, just so that I could Karma you for that

[odeon]

In so many words, bullshit. This is the place where you actually get called on your behaviour. This is the place where you won't find that false niceness (which I think is what you saw and what you confused with subtlety or discretion or whatever). But, this is also the place where, if somebody seems to be nice to you, actually might be.

Called?  So far I've had some nasty things said about me and my name turned pink...   

All that on allegations about my behavior, not even because of anything direct.  Still, 

"You" in a general sense.

I guess you have yet to master all the subtleties here.

[odeon]

Ah, yes, you were brilliant when storming in to defend the fundie fanboy. Not. You were called on and pretty much destroyed.

Sorry, I don't buy any of this, but I guess you already guessed as much.

Not my best work admittedly, I started out with one idea in mind and got off topic and then sandbagged by outside accusations.  Teach me to post after a strong cigar, those things do get me a bit worked up sometimes. 
All things considered though, I did come in here and take an unpopular position, defend a hated figure, piss a bunch of people off, get accused of treachery and beat that back, and all that happened was some nasty comments, getting the custom rank of "tattle tale" (seriously, ouch), and my name in pink.  Besides which, it's all drama for the mill, right?  Where's the fun if no one occasionally stumbles in and takes a few swings?

The above mentioned figure has left. You didn't actually accomplish anything.

[odeon]

<insert innuendo and i2 subtleties here>

[Osensitive1]

If I get in an argument with a boss at work, do you think I berate and insult him until he sees the errors of his ways and admits that I was right?  Or do you think I direct the conversation in such a way that he does what I wanted him to while thinking it was his own idea in the first place?  Which approach do you think has more real life applications?

Internet interaction isn't anything like real life, no matter how many times you say it. On the interent I have the time to properly process what's been said and formulate a response which contains careful consideration of thought. If faced with a confrontation with a boss, I'd most likely freeze up. If I did said anything, it would be later over analyzed to the point of nauseous anxiety and each word regretted no matter what the approach. Sound familiar?

[Osensitive1]

This statement pigeon holes the membership. There's quite a variety here, some who do and don't meet these terms, and the same goes for those who don't stick around. Haven't found the 'type' here to be any different than other autism sites, though the site is very different, yes.

No intention to stereotype, I'm just noting an observation made over a few years of sporadic posting contrasted with my WP experience.  A lot of WP posters simply couldn't handle the random outbursts and freedom to attack and be attacked, it would be overwhelming for them.  That's what I meant about a certain "type", the one thing I'm not seeing is anyone particularly thin skinned.  Call it a backhanded complement.

Don't think I misunderstood the implications in your op all, but will admit it's possible. Misunderstandings are one of the problems that comes with subtlety.