Forum Darwinism

[Scrapheap]

There's a term for that, it's called Sophistry.

Yes, verbal sleights of hand and other forms of intellectual dishonesty, take tallent and intelligence.

But it doesn't make one less of an asshole for using them.

That's assuming I only ever argue for the fun of it and that I don't ever believe what I'm saying, which is really case by case.  That, and I thought being called an asshole passed for a complement in these parts...

That's on a case by case basis. 

[Buzz Killington]

In life you can say what you want to people and then deal with the consequences.

Sure you can, but sometimes the consequences are not what you intended because you said something too bluntly, not clearly, at the wrong time, etc.  People are generally pretty powerless online, you can say whatever you want to whoever you want without having to worry too much about a real life asskicking or much else in the way of offline consequences, it's just the nature of the beast.  A moderated forum is more like real life in that respect, you have to observe social norms or suffer official consequences, where here it's more like vigilante justice.  I've got nothing particularly against vigilante justice, it's just not an accurate representation of how most societies function these days.  Hence why I advocate learning the soft skills, you'll use them a whole lot more than the hard ones when it comes to real life.

[Buzz Killington]

That's on a case by case basis. 

What, a guy can't be a gunsmith and a wordsmith?  I'm handy with either, but I use one a whole lot more than the other.  I mean a 1911 beats a sharp tongue when the cards are down, but I'd rather never get to that point in the first place. 
Again, I'm sorry if you didn't get the press release when I got my account reinstated over at WP, I figured openly posting under my old username was pretty much a dead giveaway.

[Buzz Killington]

This statement pigeon holes the membership. There's quite a variety here, some who do and don't meet these terms, and the same goes for those who don't stick around. Haven't found the 'type' here to be any different than other autism sites, though the site is very different, yes.

No intention to stereotype, I'm just noting an observation made over a few years of sporadic posting contrasted with my WP experience.  A lot of WP posters simply couldn't handle the random outbursts and freedom to attack and be attacked, it would be overwhelming for them.  That's what I meant about a certain "type", the one thing I'm not seeing is anyone particularly thin skinned.  Call it a backhanded complement.

[Buzz Killington]

In so many words, bullshit. This is the place where you actually get called on your behaviour. This is the place where you won't find that false niceness (which I think is what you saw and what you confused with subtlety or discretion or whatever). But, this is also the place where, if somebody seems to be nice to you, actually might be.

Called?  So far I've had some nasty things said about me and my name turned pink...   

All that on allegations about my behavior, not even because of anything direct.  Still, 

[The_Chosen_One]

Ah, so you've questioned your own dox, and turned into a Buzzkill.

Dunc's Law invoked.

[Buzz Killington]

Ah, yes, you were brilliant when storming in to defend the fundie fanboy. Not. You were called on and pretty much destroyed.

Sorry, I don't buy any of this, but I guess you already guessed as much.

Not my best work admittedly, I started out with one idea in mind and got off topic and then sandbagged by outside accusations.  Teach me to post after a strong cigar, those things do get me a bit worked up sometimes. 
All things considered though, I did come in here and take an unpopular position, defend a hated figure, piss a bunch of people off, get accused of treachery and beat that back, and all that happened was some nasty comments, getting the custom rank of "tattle tale" (seriously, ouch), and my name in pink.  Besides which, it's all drama for the mill, right?  Where's the fun if no one occasionally stumbles in and takes a few swings?

[Buzz Killington]

True, but you can equally resort to the same psyops strategies on an unmoderated forum for trolling purposes, and you'll find it's more challenging to manipulate the community if you're too new. This is because people are usually less naive on a place where there's no moderators or strict rules to protect them from undesirables.

From my experience, I find it easier to exploit forums with moderation than without.

I tried the frontal assault thing on WP's mods when I first got there, then after I got banned I got smarter about dealing with them.  In an unmoderated forum I might have never come into conflict with moderators in the first place and never been banned, but I also might never have learned how to deal with authority figures without directly conflicting with them.  Which is a more exploitable configuration I think depends on the specific mods and the specific goal, not to mention the specific forum and it's members.  I don't think I could really generalize too much there, though my personal preference is for minimal moderation if any, since I'm not a big fan of unchecked authority.  Sure, it can be manipulated in some cases, but better yet is not having to deal with it at all.

I'd be curious to know if the people on unmoderated forums are less naive to start, or if they get that way through exposure to the wild, so to speak.  I work with other Aspies IRL and the naive thing can be a real problem, so I'm always looking at how different people deal with it.

[Buzz Killington]

Ah, so you've questioned your own dox, and turned into a Buzzkill.

Dunc's Law invoked.

Wouldn't I have to be questioning my Dx to invoke that?  Almost clever though.

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

True, but you can equally resort to the same psyops strategies on an unmoderated forum for trolling purposes, and you'll find it's more challenging to manipulate the community if you're too new. This is because people are usually less naive on a place where there's no moderators or strict rules to protect them from undesirables.

From my experience, I find it easier to exploit forums with moderation than without.

I tried the frontal assault thing on WP's mods when I first got there, then after I got banned I got smarter about dealing with them.  In an unmoderated forum I might have never come into conflict with moderators in the first place and never been banned, but I also might never have learned how to deal with authority figures without directly conflicting with them.  Which is a more exploitable configuration I think depends on the specific mods and the specific goal, not to mention the specific forum and it's members.  I don't think I could really generalize too much there, though my personal preference is for minimal moderation if any, since I'm not a big fan of unchecked authority.  Sure, it can be manipulated in some cases, but better yet is not having to deal with it at all.

I'd be curious to know if the people on unmoderated forums are less naive to start, or if they get that way through exposure to the wild, so to speak.  I work with other Aspies IRL and the naive thing can be a real problem, so I'm always looking at how different people deal with it.

But there's the thing, I already have real life experience in dealing with authority figures because being an HFA like I was as a child, you tend to be watched a lot more than the average child. But once I understood the concept of manipulation, there's not too much to influencing authority figures, charm and cold reading work best. It's like the saying of learning Texas Hold'em, "takes minutes to learn but years to master". But I suppose the experience is subjective because I've been familiar with moderated environments for decades in real life.

Unmoderated environments at first were an intimidating concept to me, because I had no authority to manipulate in my favour and was on my own. So naturally, I had to learn more advanced conversational skills that engage an entire audience instead of individuals so I was able to fend for myself.

[renaeden]

I belong to another forum that is moderated as well as belong to this one and I don't really post differently there than I do there. I guess that is because I don't do personal attacks. If I did that on the other forum I would probably get a warning whereas here I wouldn't.

[The_Chosen_One]

I belong to another forum that is moderated as well as belong to this one and I don't really post differently there than I do there. I guess that is because I don't do personal attacks. If I did that on the other forum I would probably get a warning whereas here I wouldn't.

Yes, you are one of I²'s tamer members. And that isn't an insult, either. I think your posting style is similar to QV in a way.

[renaeden]

I belong to another forum that is moderated as well as belong to this one and I don't really post differently there than I do there. I guess that is because I don't do personal attacks. If I did that on the other forum I would probably get a warning whereas here I wouldn't.

Yes, you are one of I²'s tamer members. And that isn't an insult, either. I think your posting style is similar to QV in a way.

ok, not taken as an insult. Didn't know my posting style is similar to QV's. I shall take that as a compliment.

[The_Chosen_One]

I belong to another forum that is moderated as well as belong to this one and I don't really post differently there than I do there. I guess that is because I don't do personal attacks. If I did that on the other forum I would probably get a warning whereas here I wouldn't.

Yes, you are one of I²'s tamer members. And that isn't an insult, either. I think your posting style is similar to QV in a way.

ok, not taken as an insult. Didn't know my posting style is similar to QV's. I shall take that as a compliment.

In the sense that she doesn't throw insults around either. There are things I like about certain members and the way they post. Like the Prof, who has a way of being sarcastic and funny yet can bamboozle with words. Squid can be outright funny, and PPK has a good insult or two hidden up his sleeve. QV, yourself and probably Hyke are the ones who post opinions without getting involved in fights and arguments, and throwing insults. A sort of 'mature' style. Cbc has a jolly style (to me) which means she can put people at ease in a conversation, or have a few jokes. Sir_les can get into an argument here and there, as with Shleed, but both can also laugh along with the rest if need be.

I think these are all good points in all the people I've mentioned, and I know there are others I've left out. And all these people, amongst others here, I would say are mates, even tho' it's a virtual relationship.

[renaeden]

I think you are pretty accurate. I like that we have all sorts of people here.