Forum Darwinism

[Buzz Killington]

Dox makes a good point. On this site, I can call someone a dick. On WP, that wasnt allowed so I had to learn new skills.
I learned how to track down someones personal information, and then how to create lots of fake sites in their name.
These are skills I would not have if it werent for WPs heavy moderation.

Indeed, one of many reasons I've been arguing with them for years about letting little things go to avoid causing bigger problems. 

Ever thought about going into politics, Butterflies?  I'm not talking about running for anything, but rather consultation and behind the scenes services.  That was some pretty skillful false flag work, I'm sure an oppo team would gladly employ someone who shows a flair for that sort of thing.  I'm only half joking, with passion and skill you actually could make a career out of it.

[Buzz Killington]

You describe internet forums as places that influence, mold or determine a persons ability or individual style of communication.  I describe it as a place for dick and fart jokes, and to let off steam.  We see this hallowed ground very differently, but I didn't belong to an internet forum until last October.  I assume you practically grew up in one?

My age kind of rules that out, I didn't discover forums until well into the 2000's.  I just notice the ways in which my online and offline interactions with people influence each other, and use threads like this to discuss whether I'm alone in that observation.  By no means let me get in the way of your dick and fart jokes though.

[Buzz Killington]

Off to work, back later.

Resume farting on each other's dicks, or whatever is you normally do when I'm not here.  :lol:

[The_Chosen_One]

Again, I think you take the internet far too seriously.

No more seriously than any other hobby.  I make these kinds of observations automatically, it's just part of how my mind works.

You describe internet forums as places that influence, mold or determine a persons ability or individual style of communication.  I describe it as a place for dick and fart jokes, and to let off steam.  We see this hallowed ground very differently, but I didn't belong to an internet forum until last October.  I assume you practically grew up in one?

That's scary!

Maybe this is what life in an internet forum is to him:

['Butterflies']

Dox makes a good point. On this site, I can call someone a dick. On WP, that wasnt allowed so I had to learn new skills.
I learned how to track down someones personal information, and then how to create lots of fake sites in their name.
These are skills I would not have if it werent for WPs heavy moderation.

Indeed, one of many reasons I've been arguing with them for years about letting little things go to avoid causing bigger problems. 

Ever thought about going into politics, Butterflies?  I'm not talking about running for anything, but rather consultation and behind the scenes services.  That was some pretty skillful false flag work, I'm sure an oppo team would gladly employ someone who shows a flair for that sort of thing.  I'm only half joking, with passion and skill you actually could make a career out of it.

 :lol:

Thanks. Sadly, where I live, doing a job like that would be likely to result in me being blown up

Would be fun though, but I'm happy with the career I have for now.

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Actually a less moderated forum is more challenging because you have no moderators to exploit and are completely on your own. You rely purely on how you establish your reputation with the community and how well your timing and execution is. The flaw of moderated forums is that, by establishing great standing with one or more of the mods a mutual 'arrangement' can then exist (TL;DR: Easily corruptible). This gives you leeway to being a bit more of an asshole while not suffering as much consequences. The key is knowing when to not push it too far. Relax for a while, agitate, get told off (while secretly they don't really mind, just putting on a show) and rinse and repeat.

It's actually not all that hard to lurk on a forum that's more moderated, and gain the feel of the place and know exactly what's appropriate to say. Once you know how the big players are and what the moderators are like, you can exploit that information to your advantage. I've never been banned from any forum (if anything I gotten other people banned, never reported them, I just pissed them off enough. ), except one where I intentionally just kept at it with trolling until I drove them nuts literally.

You see though, you're still proving my point in a way.  A moderated forum requires a different approach, surveillance, social engineering, determining the line and going right up to it etc.  That's a whole lot different than ginning up a sockpuppet to get off a few attack posts, there's effort and skill involved in what you're describing.  More so in that I'm specifically talking about Aspie forums, and things like discerning the social mores and manipulating a moderator are areas in which we're supposed to have difficulties.  I'd say those skills apply as well offline, I mean aspie boards are full of stories of getting laid off or angering friends because of failures in those very areas.

True, but you can equally resort to the same psyops strategies on an unmoderated forum for trolling purposes, and you'll find it's more challenging to manipulate the community if you're too new. This is because people are usually less naive on a place where there's no moderators or strict rules to protect them from undesirables.

From my experience, I find it easier to exploit forums with moderation than without.

[Osensitive1]

Off to work, back later.

Resume farting on each other's dicks, or whatever is you normally do when I'm not here.  :lol:

Very subtle. Have noticed there's some who don't stick around due to generally not finding the discussion here intellectual enough to suit their interactive needs. Also have noticed a similar but reverse avoidance for some when it comes to the never ending battle of opinion over abstraction, and the mind numbing verbosity found in PPR discussion at wp. How very darwinian. Myself, like a bit of both, and though not active at wp, can't help but be drawn to inspect your conclusions of the reverse natural selection here, with the membership's writing ability so lacking in subtlety and discretion, and ask how this factors for the many who are active on both sites, among others.

[Scrapheap]

I also tend to like arguing lost causes and unpopular positions, I mean what's the point of arguing at all if it's easy?

There's a term for that, it's called Sophistry.

Yes, verbal sleights of hand and other forms of intellectual dishonesty, take tallent and intelligence.

But it doesn't make one less of an asshole for using them.

[Buzz Killington]

There's a term for that, it's called Sophistry.

Yes, verbal sleights of hand and other forms of intellectual dishonesty, take tallent and intelligence.

But it doesn't make one less of an asshole for using them.

That's assuming I only ever argue for the fun of it and that I don't ever believe what I'm saying, which is really case by case.  That, and I thought being called an asshole passed for a complement in these parts...

[Buzz Killington]

So WP actually contributed to your embracing the forces of darkness!   

Shh!  Darth Plank does not look kindly upon those who reveal his most cunning plans in public; or he'll take credit for improving Butterflies's social skills and sell an instructional tape through Autism Speaks, he could go either way with it.  He's more of a green side of the force guy as near as I can tell. 

[The_Chosen_One]

So WP actually contributed to your embracing the forces of darkness!   

Shh!  Darth Plank does not look kindly upon those who reveal his most cunning plans in public; or he'll take credit for improving Butterflies's social skills and sell an instructional tape through Autism Speaks, he could go either way with it.  He's more of a green side of the force guy as near as I can tell.

More of a greenish-brown side. Probably from the bowels of the death star.

[Natalia Evans]

Dox makes a good point. On this site, I can call someone a dick. On WP, that wasnt allowed so I had to learn new skills.
I learned how to track down someones personal information, and then how to create lots of fake sites in their name.
These are skills I would not have if it werent for WPs heavy moderation.

I thought you didn't do that and I swore Callaway said someone did their homework. I swore you said a troll probably made those profiles.

*Too lazy right now to go look to refresh my memory*

[Buzz Killington]

I haven't read the responses yet, so am just responding to this.  I think you take the internet too seriously.  Do you really think that how someone posts on the internet is somehow representative of how they operate in real life?  You must recognize that fully functioning people can do different things in different places.

I'll freely admit that I don't to small talk and chit chat very well, which comes through in both my on and offline personae.  This might make me appear more serious than I am, it's an easy mistake to make.
 
Where I've personally seen the most benefit is from arguing politics, having my ideas constantly attacked and in turn looking for ways to attack the ideas of others has sharpened my thinking process when it comes to evaluating ideas and then evangelizing them to others.  Just like playing chess or poker online against other people will make you better at it through practice, I've found that the skills I gain in advocating online do transfer to my real life, in that I'm better at holding my own when arguing with people.  Again, an area where many AS people have difficulty. 

[The_Chosen_One]

Dox makes a good point. On this site, I can call someone a dick. On WP, that wasnt allowed so I had to learn new skills.
I learned how to track down someones personal information, and then how to create lots of fake sites in their name.
These are skills I would not have if it werent for WPs heavy moderation.

I thought you didn't do that and I swore Callaway said someone did their homework. I swore you said a troll probably made those profiles.

*Too lazy right now to go look to refresh my memory*

What does it matter?

It's only Wrongplanet.

[Buzz Killington]

But these skills are only useful  on moderated internet forums?  Some of us don't live for the moderated internet forum.  I think a lot of us here at I2 only post here at I2, so why should we care to gain "soft skills" that will allow us to get things over on the weaker and more sensitive lot at places that we don't want to be in the first place?

Who says these skills are limited to moderated boards, or even just the net?

If I get in an argument with a boss at work, do you think I berate and insult him until he sees the errors of his ways and admits that I was right?  Or do you think I direct the conversation in such a way that he does what I wanted him to while thinking it was his own idea in the first place?  Which approach do you think has more real life applications?