Forum Darwinism

[odeon]

I was thinking about this the other day after seeing yet another poster on WP trash talking the PPR forum there and talking about what a cesspit full of awful people it is.  I think of PPR as comparatively mild, I mean it's a bit rougher than the rest of WP, but is certainly tamer than most political forums on the internet at large.  Apparently that's still too rowdy for some people so they avoid that board, natural selection having weeded them out from participating on that forum.  Some people just can't stand to have their ideas attacked or questioned, or can't separate themselves enough from their opinions to discuss them rationally, or just don't like the confrontational tone there. 

I2 seems to have a similar dynamic in that it's just too rough for some people, while others thrive in the less constrained environment.  It seems to weed out a different kind of person, people who take themselves too seriously or can't laugh at themselves from time to time, as well as the sensitive in general.  I also think it has a blindspot though, in that not having the usual mods and rules that AS boards tend to makes it harder for regulars here to function on a more moderated board.  This is what I was trying to get at in my other thread, until I let myself get sidetracked by other issues and drawn into some drama; being rusty at posting here and all. 

What I'm talking about is the reverse natural selection concerning people who never learn to post with subtlety and discretion because they've never had to, they never break bad habits because they never get called on them.  This isn't a criticism, just an observation I've made over years of posting at different forums with different rules and noticing patterns.  Not being allowed to just directly personally attack someone does have value in that it makes you think harder about how to come at them, how to use them as a springboard for an argument to the crowd, and how to actually persuade rather than bludgeon with logic.  I think that sort of ability is a useful one to have in everyday life, since it's not usually a good idea to verbally abuse someone to their face, and learning to be persuasive rather than trying to win an argument is invaluable for an Aspie. 

Again, just my thoughts and observations.

In so many words, bullshit. This is the place where you actually get called on your behaviour. This is the place where you won't find that false niceness (which I think is what you saw and what you confused with subtlety or discretion or whatever). But, this is also the place where, if somebody seems to be nice to you, actually might be.

[odeon]

I think being a sneaky about picking on someone or not telling them what you truly feel is cowardly. That being said, shit vomit monkey rape aids enema.

That's not what I'm saying at all; I'm just saying that when the direct approach is forbidden it forces you to branch out and learn new skills.  It's like doing everything you'd normally do with your strong hand with your weak one for a month, it changes how you approach things and adds versatility to your problem solving ability.  I doubt anyone I like or dislike on WP has any doubt about how I feel about them, just because I can't directly insult them doesn't mean I have to sneak around and back-stab them, it just means I have to be more careful in my wording to avoid running afoul of the TOS and the mods.  It's like using a sharp knife vs a blunt object.

No, it doesn't force you to learn anything. The bores are boring everywhere and the sharp ones already know how to write without telling people to fuck off.

But here, if you want to ask someone to fuck off, you can.

[odeon]

After 3.5 years on another forum, not aspie, I recently got 2 mod warnings within a month. One was for a fairly direct personal attack, the other for posting a rather mild girl in a bikini doing a handstand jpg to call someone an attention whore. Prior to that I had been more subtle in personal attacks etc. Maybe I was tired.  I think that tendency you refer to may have contributed to getting the infractions. I never did get a whole lot of warnings at WP, probably 6 or 7 total.

I know exactly how that goes; the driver forums I used to frequent were far more permissive than WP about personal attacks and arguments, and all my mod warnings were in the early days when I was still using both sets of forums.  It's really easy to get used to one set of norms, and then get totally flummoxed when you switch environments and previously acceptable conduct is suddenly not OK.  What's interesting to me is that posting for years under relatively strict moderation has made me a much better debater both online and off, having rules to try and bend provides a challenge and keeps me interested to a certain degree.  I also tend to like arguing lost causes and unpopular positions, I mean what's the point of arguing at all if it's easy?

Ah, yes, you were brilliant when storming in to defend the fundie fanboy. Not. You were called on and pretty much destroyed.

Sorry, I don't buy any of this, but I guess you already guessed as much.

[Squidusa]

But here, if you want to ask someone to fuck off, you can.

Fuck off Odeon.


(Just kidding )

[The_Chosen_One]

This is probably the only forum I will ever post on, and has been of late anyway. And even with all the drama, meltdowns etc, it's still a place where I can say what I want without fear of being shut up or told my behaviour is inappropriate. I know the callouts can be a bit brutal at times, but 'growing some' is what everyone has to do.

Yes, I'd rather be here than a site where you would be trying to fit in with losers who just want to be coddled and have people say 'there there'. Those places aren't any fun.

['Butterflies']

This appears to be a libertarian advocating moderation on an unmoderated site. That puzzles me slightly.

I think Dox is probably a well meaning guy, but I think he is very confused. His first few posts in his "Low quality trolling" thread are amongst the most confused and self-contradictory posts I have ever seen on this site.

[Buzz Killington]

For some reason i find it much easier to argue on behalf of someone, and
tend to let things go in relation to myself.   

I usually end up supporting the underdog.  Well look at my bloody
footy team

Same here, the little bit of distance that you get when you argue someone else's case makes it easier to argue since you've taken your own self interest out of the equation.  If I'm arguing on my own behalf I'm always second guessing myself about whether my own POV has distorted things, while being an advocate doesn't have that problem.  I also like underdogs, I mean who likes to root for the Yankees?

[Buzz Killington]

This appears to be a libertarian advocating moderation on an unmoderated site. That puzzles me slightly.

I think Dox is probably a well meaning guy, but I think he is very confused. His first few posts in his "Low quality trolling" thread are amongst the most confused and self-contradictory posts I have ever seen on this site.

Oh no, I'm not advocating moderation, just pointing out how it affects people who post under it in a Darwinian fashion. 
I did get a bit muddled in my other thread because I started it with one idea and blurred into something else that was bothering me, never a good way to write a post.  Then I had to go into a whole different mode when I got accused of spying, proving a negative is a known impossible and all so I just had to ride it out as best I could. 
This thread is more what I was originally thinking, a rumination on how forum rules mold the people who post under them.

[midlifeaspie]

a rumination on how forum rules mold the people who post under them.

Again, I think you take the internet far too seriously.

[Buzz Killington]

Actually a less moderated forum is more challenging because you have no moderators to exploit and are completely on your own. You rely purely on how you establish your reputation with the community and how well your timing and execution is. The flaw of moderated forums is that, by establishing great standing with one or more of the mods a mutual 'arrangement' can then exist (TL;DR: Easily corruptible). This gives you leeway to being a bit more of an asshole while not suffering as much consequences. The key is knowing when to not push it too far. Relax for a while, agitate, get told off (while secretly they don't really mind, just putting on a show) and rinse and repeat.

It's actually not all that hard to lurk on a forum that's more moderated, and gain the feel of the place and know exactly what's appropriate to say. Once you know how the big players are and what the moderators are like, you can exploit that information to your advantage. I've never been banned from any forum (if anything I gotten other people banned, never reported them, I just pissed them off enough. ), except one where I intentionally just kept at it with trolling until I drove them nuts literally.

You see though, you're still proving my point in a way.  A moderated forum requires a different approach, surveillance, social engineering, determining the line and going right up to it etc.  That's a whole lot different than ginning up a sockpuppet to get off a few attack posts, there's effort and skill involved in what you're describing.  More so in that I'm specifically talking about Aspie forums, and things like discerning the social mores and manipulating a moderator are areas in which we're supposed to have difficulties.  I'd say those skills apply as well offline, I mean aspie boards are full of stories of getting laid off or angering friends because of failures in those very areas.

[midlifeaspie]

Actually a less moderated forum is more challenging because you have no moderators to exploit and are completely on your own. You rely purely on how you establish your reputation with the community and how well your timing and execution is. The flaw of moderated forums is that, by establishing great standing with one or more of the mods a mutual 'arrangement' can then exist (TL;DR: Easily corruptible). This gives you leeway to being a bit more of an asshole while not suffering as much consequences. The key is knowing when to not push it too far. Relax for a while, agitate, get told off (while secretly they don't really mind, just putting on a show) and rinse and repeat.

It's actually not all that hard to lurk on a forum that's more moderated, and gain the feel of the place and know exactly what's appropriate to say. Once you know how the big players are and what the moderators are like, you can exploit that information to your advantage. I've never been banned from any forum (if anything I gotten other people banned, never reported them, I just pissed them off enough. ), except one where I intentionally just kept at it with trolling until I drove them nuts literally.

You see though, you're still proving my point in a way.  A moderated forum requires a different approach, surveillance, social engineering, determining the line and going right up to it etc.  That's a whole lot different than ginning up a sockpuppet to get off a few attack posts, there's effort and skill involved in what you're describing.  More so in that I'm specifically talking about Aspie forums, and things like discerning the social mores and manipulating a moderator are areas in which we're supposed to have difficulties.  I'd say those skills apply as well offline, I mean aspie boards are full of stories of getting laid off or angering friends because of failures in those very areas.

 

['Butterflies']

I also think it has a blindspot though, in that not having the usual mods and rules that AS boards tend to makes it harder for regulars here to function on a more moderated board.

Sorry. I misunderstood that part as a critcism of the unmoderated nature of this site.

[Buzz Killington]

Again, I think you take the internet far too seriously.

No more seriously than any other hobby.  I make these kinds of observations automatically, it's just part of how my mind works. 

[skyblue1]

a rumination on how forum rules mold the people who post under them.

Again, I think you take the internet far too seriously.

[midlifeaspie]

Again, I think you take the internet far too seriously.

No more seriously than any other hobby.  I make these kinds of observations automatically, it's just part of how my mind works.

You describe internet forums as places that influence, mold or determine a persons ability or individual style of communication.  I describe it as a place for dick and fart jokes, and to let off steam.  We see this hallowed ground very differently, but I didn't belong to an internet forum until last October.  I assume you practically grew up in one?