Should British Government take benefits/housing off rioter's?

[Parts]

So just were is his family, you know the ones that didn't do anything wrong going to live?  Did they explain that or did they just say they would be out of public housing.  Would it not be considered abuse to send a 7 year old out to live on the streets,  I mean they are in public housing and getting benefits so it's not like they have money to stay somewhere else.   

['Butterflies']

So just were is his family, you know the ones that didn't do anything wrong going to live?  Did they explain that or did they just say they would be out of public housing.  Would it not be considered abuse to send a 7 year old out to live on the streets,  I mean they are in public housing and getting benefits so it's not like they have money to stay somewhere else.   

They would probably have to rent privately, where the rents are higher. Also, if they were recieving housing benefit, and that's been taken away, they may have no way of affording a private rent. They will probably end up living on a family members floor, punishing them as well for the crime of the 16 year old.

['andersom']

So just were is his family, you know the ones that didn't do anything wrong going to live?  Did they explain that or did they just say they would be out of public housing.  Would it not be considered abuse to send a 7 year old out to live on the streets,  I mean they are in public housing and getting benefits so it's not like they have money to stay somewhere else.   

They would probably have to rent privately, where the rents are higher. Also, if they were recieving housing benefit, and that's been taken away, they may have no way of affording a private rent. They will probably end up living on a family members floor, punishing them as well for the crime of the 16 year old.

Or in the streets.

[Icequeen]

No way that a mother and a 7 year old sister should be evicted for the deeds of a 16 yo.


Punishment for the 16 yo, yes, absolutely.

Community service would be good, if someone really invested energy in that.

Get him to work where he damaged things. Make him see there were people, actual, living and breathing people like him, where he damaged stuff. No community service in groups of thugs.

Somehow bring a sense of human interaction back.

And not a 12 hour service as a punishment. Long term. Long enough to make people connect with where they are working. 

Won't happen of course, way too expensive, to invest in a society and a community.

Exactly, let him see the cause and effect of his actions. What does evicting his family teach anyone?   

['Butterflies']

So just were is his family, you know the ones that didn't do anything wrong going to live?  Did they explain that or did they just say they would be out of public housing.  Would it not be considered abuse to send a 7 year old out to live on the streets,  I mean they are in public housing and getting benefits so it's not like they have money to stay somewhere else.   

They would probably have to rent privately, where the rents are higher. Also, if they were recieving housing benefit, and that's been taken away, they may have no way of affording a private rent. They will probably end up living on a family members floor, punishing them as well for the crime of the 16 year old.

Or in the streets.

Possibly. I would hope that a charity would step in before it got that far. We do not live in a nice society, and our government is not nice.

[The_Chosen_One]

Unfortunately, the govt is unable to make the ringleaders accountable, and the rest of the rioters are sheltered by their families, who have a disregard for authority. So when the cops go around to some of these estates, they are given short shrift by the families of those involved, and the culprits get off. And even when they are caught and charged, the anger boils over even more. Maybe Cameron has a weak govt, but whether they are weak or not, the electorate put them in power and gave them a mandate. And that mandate includes sorting out rioters and doing whatever they can to restore calm. Lots of people will be alienated, but again, what can they do.

I am only asking the question here, and saying my piece. No need for people to jump down my throat.

['Butterflies']

Unfortunately, the govt is unable to make the ringleaders accountable, and the rest of the rioters are sheltered by their families, who have a disregard for authority. So when the cops go around to some of these estates, they are given short shrift by the families of those involved, and the culprits get off. And even when they are caught and charged, the anger boils over even more. Maybe Cameron has a weak govt, but whether they are weak or not, the electorate put them in power and gave them a mandate. And that mandate includes sorting out rioters and doing whatever they can to restore calm. Lots of people will be alienated, but again, what can they do.

I am only asking the question here, and saying my piece. No need for people to jump down my throat.

Yes. We ought to sort out the rioters. Almost everyone agrees they were out of order. If someone has commited such a terrible crime, such as burning down buildings, some of them homes, then put them in jail. If they were a smaller part of the riot, such as looting, then give them a smaller punishment.
Nobody is saying they shouldn't be punished, just don't punish their families, and don't take away their means to survive.

['Butterflies']

Our government has actually achieved the near impossible. A week ago, the rioters were seen as scum by most people. Now because of our governments heavy-handed buffoonery, the rioters are almost being seen as the victims.

[Osensitive1]

This is the police-state power that comes with a socialistic society. 

These things aren't quite an issue in the U.S.

To answer your question, no. The State shouldn't have the power to throw innocent people on the streets.

Agreed. Maybe not quite here, though the topic reminds me of recent talk of drug testing welfare recipients.

[bodie]

Unfortunately, the govt is unable to make the ringleaders accountable, and the rest of the rioters are sheltered by their families, who have a disregard for authority. So when the cops go around to some of these estates, they are given short shrift by the families of those involved, and the culprits get off. And even when they are caught and charged, the anger boils over even more. Maybe Cameron has a weak govt, but whether they are weak or not, the electorate put them in power and gave them a mandate. And that mandate includes sorting out rioters and doing whatever they can to restore calm. Lots of people will be alienated, but again, what can they do.

I am only asking the question here, and saying my piece. No need for people to jump down my throat.

Well i haven't heard of anyone being sheltered by their family so i cant really say anything to that.  I heard about
one lady who frog marched her son into the police station because she had seen footage of him.

I am not sure about the police being given the run around.  If that is true  then there are many reasons why people
mistrust the police.  It goes back decades.  I am too tired to go into it and am off to bed in a bit.

I understand punishments are necessary, in varying degrees but at the same time i am just as interested in
how we can prevent further trouble.  I find the proposals of the government will just make it worse.

[The_Chosen_One]

Unfortunately, the govt is unable to make the ringleaders accountable, and the rest of the rioters are sheltered by their families, who have a disregard for authority. So when the cops go around to some of these estates, they are given short shrift by the families of those involved, and the culprits get off. And even when they are caught and charged, the anger boils over even more. Maybe Cameron has a weak govt, but whether they are weak or not, the electorate put them in power and gave them a mandate. And that mandate includes sorting out rioters and doing whatever they can to restore calm. Lots of people will be alienated, but again, what can they do.

I am only asking the question here, and saying my piece. No need for people to jump down my throat.

Well i haven't heard of anyone being sheltered by their family so i cant really say anything to that.  I heard about
one lady who frog marched her son into the police station because she had seen footage of him.

I am not sure about the police being given the run around.  If that is true  then there are many reasons why people
mistrust the police.  It goes back decades.  I am too tired to go into it and am off to bed in a bit.

I understand punishments are necessary, in varying degrees but at the same time i am just as interested in
how we can prevent further trouble.  I find the proposals of the government will just make it worse.

If there were a better solution, then whoever comes up with it should a) forward it on to Cameron; and b) run for parliament themselves. Only problem is, they might get lost in the political circus and the solution may never see the light of day. It's a terrible problem, and one I wish had never happened. The UK did not deserve this, and things should have been sorted out long ago. There has to be light at the end of the tunnel. Has to.

['Butterflies']

The riots stopped days ago. Our society was crap before them, and will continue to be crap.

Things will only continue to get worse as long as a large ammount of the voters want the people they see as lazy and workshy being punished by being made poorer.

[The_Chosen_One]

The riots stopped days ago. Our society was crap before them, and will continue to be crap.

Things will only continue to get worse as long as a large ammount of the voters want the people they see as lazy and workshy being punished by being made poorer.

Incentive and help is what they need. I've been reading what you (and bodie) have been saying, and yes, maybe they have fucked this one up. As I said, what can they do?

I guess they need to go back to square one and think the whole thing through, but as with politicians of all creeds, thinking never has been a strong point with them. I say that of ours as well, and a lot of other places suffer the same plight with them. I guess in a way it could be seen as a huge meltdown due to frustration, only on a country-wide scale.

I like the UK, and I have plenty of people I hope I can call friends there, so the last thing I would want is to see them go down the drain. I'm sure the people will be able to rise up again and things will get better.

['Butterflies']

The riots stopped days ago. Our society was crap before them, and will continue to be crap.

Things will only continue to get worse as long as a large ammount of the voters want the people they see as lazy and workshy being punished by being made poorer.

Incentive and help is what they need. I've been reading what you (and bodie) have been saying, and yes, maybe they have fucked this one up. As I said, what can they do?

I guess they need to go back to square one and think the whole thing through, but as with politicians of all creeds, thinking never has been a strong point with them. I say that of ours as well, and a lot of other places suffer the same plight with them. I guess in a way it could be seen as a huge meltdown due to frustration, only on a country-wide scale.

I like the UK, and I have plenty of people I hope I can call friends there, so the last thing I would want is to see them go down the drain. I'm sure the people will be able to rise up again and things will get better.

 

I wish what you say was right, but the majority of people will vote for what they see as their own short to medium term interests. Unless the government invests hugely in the underpriviledged classes, the problems will get worse. The majority of voters do not want to invest in the poor, they want to see the underprivaledged being punished instead.

I'm guessing if this isn't happening in Oz now, it soon will.

[renaeden]

They have work-for-the-dole schemes here in Australia. Maybe the rioters/looters should be made to do something along the same lines as this or have their payments taken away.

I think it is unfair that a whole family be punished for what a single member did so I voted No on the poll.