Post what you are thinking right now, part two

[Pyraxis]

Every history of everything starts with a first something.  Every drug addict first drank milk, let's ban milk 

Seriously, do you want the courts deciding appropriate punishments for your kids?  Where does it end?  What if one calls the other a mean name?

No, I don't. I think the court should have rejected this one, as soon as the police had made sure that it wasn't child abuse or anything like that. The courts have better things to do than handle parenting.

But I'm nevertheless interested in what can be categorised as parenting and what can't. I do think that there should be safety mechanisms in place beyond the sometimes doubtful justice of parents.

Social Services (at least in the USA, though I imagine there's a similar pattern in other countries) sometimes have problem cases where the line gets badly blurred. The community often knows there's something odd going on with a particular family, but they haven't yet been able to prove abuse, so police and social workers will get called out to the house repeatedly without ever taking real action. It becomes a game of who can break the pattern first. Sometimes the kids are removed to live with a relative or foster family and then brought back because it's believed the parents' problems have stabilized, only to end up put back into care when the next crisis hits. The system is chronically underfunded, as flawed as the people working in it, and bogged down by paperwork, and sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

So I think taking a boy to court over an isolated incident of punching his sister is intrusive to the family, and a waste of everyone's time. I'm also curious who chose to actually prosecute, the parents or the police.

[Callaway]

Every history of everything starts with a first something.  Every drug addict first drank milk, let's ban milk 

Seriously, do you want the courts deciding appropriate punishments for your kids?  Where does it end?  What if one calls the other a mean name?

No, I don't. I think the court should have rejected this one, as soon as the police had made sure that it wasn't child abuse or anything like that. The courts have better things to do than handle parenting.

But I'm nevertheless interested in what can be categorised as parenting and what can't. I do think that there should be safety mechanisms in place beyond the sometimes doubtful justice of parents.

Social Services (at least in the USA, though I imagine there's a similar pattern in other countries) sometimes have problem cases where the line gets badly blurred. The community often knows there's something odd going on with a particular family, but they haven't yet been able to prove abuse, so police and social workers will get called out to the house repeatedly without ever taking real action. It becomes a game of who can break the pattern first. Sometimes the kids are removed to live with a relative or foster family and then brought back because it's believed the parents' problems have stabilized, only to end up put back into care when the next crisis hits. The system is chronically underfunded, as flawed as the people working in it, and bogged down by paperwork, and sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

So I think taking a boy to court over an isolated incident of punching his sister is intrusive to the family, and a waste of everyone's time. I'm also curious who chose to actually prosecute, the parents or the police.

I read in the comments of the article which Peter linked that after the sister made the initial complaint, then by law, the prosecutors and police were obligated to follow up and nobody would be permitted to drop the charges after it was filed.  What I couldn't find was how old the little sister was or whether she was injured, which I think would be relevant.

[odeon]

Just to take an opposing view: what if the spat had resulted in a more serious injury? How hard would a brother have to hit his sister or vice versa for a court to be justified in taking on the case as presented to them by the police?

I'm not saying that I think the District Court did the right thing by not rejecting the case, but I'd like to know where the limits are.

Sounds like the courts taking over parenting to me.  If someone was killed or maimed then I can see the government getting involved, everything else is internal to the family unless there is a history of abuse taking place where the parents are not interceding.

Every history of abuse starts with a first time. Define "maiming". How hard would the brother have to hit?

Maim:  to deprive of the use of some part of the body by wounding or the like; cripple.

Are you seriously suggesting that anything less than that is up to the parents to handle?

Yes

If someone attacks you on the street, I assume you will settle things without involving an overburdened court system unless you actually lose function of some part of your body in the process?

No, I don't. I think the court should have rejected this one, as soon as the police had made sure that it wasn't child abuse or anything like that. The courts have better things to do than handle parenting.

But I'm nevertheless interested in what can be categorised as parenting and what can't. I do think that there should be safety mechanisms in place beyond the sometimes doubtful justice of parents.

Me too, but I think it is the state's responsibility to first prove that the parents aren't handling the situation themselves.  Innocent until proven guilty.  Responsible until proven otherwise.  The first step shouldn't be the state stepping in unless someone is in immediate danger.

Of course the need to prove it. I just think children should have the same protection as anyone else.

[bodie]

The fact that the age of the girl isn't disclosed makes it a bit tricky to comment.  Although from reading the report i understood that the kicks didn't really hurt him (by his own admission) and after only a week they were friends again.  I am also, perhaps falsely assuming an adult is usually present?  I wouldn't want to leave the two of them alone if they were my kids.  If all these facts are true then it seems unnecessary to involve a court of law.

However,  i have had little fights growing up with my own brothers,  but i tell you what... never would they punch me in the face!  provoked or not!   It seems a very extreme response to a few kicks 'that didn't hurt' though, doesn't it?   Also,  i think courts or police sometimes act just to put other people off doing same.  As a deterrent if you like.   I can see that as beneficial to some kids,  say if there parents are always out or just don't give a fuck, it might prevent some poor kid somewhere from getting a good hiding from a sibling.

Just looking at the facts presented though,  i would say it was a waste of resources and should have been handled by the parents.  Unless there is something we don't know. ?

[bodie]

Of course the need to prove it. I just think children should have the same protection as anyone else.

Yes, i agree with that statement 100%

Makes me wonder if these things go on a lot more than we like to think, and they get dismissed just because it is so often the case to keep it in the family? hmm.

My own brothers would resort to 'mental cruelty' - much more effective.  When i was a teenager and started dating,  they found it amusing to get the family photo's out to show 'boyfriend' - carefully selecting the one when i was 5years old in the noddy playing in the bath!  or the one where i fell asleep in my sunday dinner!   

[Callaway]

Of course the need to prove it. I just think children should have the same protection as anyone else.

Yes, i agree with that statement 100%

Makes me wonder if these things go on a lot more than we like to think, and they get dismissed just because it is so often the case to keep it in the family? hmm.

My own brothers would resort to 'mental cruelty' - much more effective.  When i was a teenager and started dating,  they found it amusing to get the family photo's out to show 'boyfriend' - carefully selecting the one when i was 5years old in the noddy playing in the bath!  or the one where i fell asleep in my sunday dinner!   

My brothers and I physically fought sometimes when we were kids but nobody ever brought the police into it.  They weren't allowed to hit me with their fists, and I wasn't allowed to scratch them with my long fingernails.  One time I did scratch my brother and my dad clipped my fingernails short but nobody called 911.

By the time any of us were dating, we were (mostly) nicer to one another.  I remember my younger brother commented to my boyfriend at the time when I made him some pretty bitter iced tea and my brother tasted it, "Either you really like that tea or else you REALLY like my sister."

My other brother and I teased one another once about each other's boyfriend and girlfriend, but that was just between us.  I sang to him, "I Wish They All Could Be California Girls" because his girlfriend was from California and he pretended to mimic me and said, "Oh ---- I just love to rub your bald head" because my boyfriend was older and beginning to lose his hair.

 

[Queen Victoria]

I need to remember to take a short walk after each meal.  I've been spending too much time at the computer and my legs are starting to cramp up at night.  Since I eat most of my meals at the computer it will give my legs a bit of a stretch.

[Callaway]

I need to remember to take a short walk after each meal.  I've been spending too much time at the computer and my legs are starting to cramp up at night.  Since I eat most of my meals at the computer it will give my legs a bit of a stretch.

How much magnesium and potassium are you getting?

[Queen Victoria]

I need to remember to take a short walk after each meal.  I've been spending too much time at the computer and my legs are starting to cramp up at night.  Since I eat most of my meals at the computer it will give my legs a bit of a stretch.

How much magnesium and potassium are you getting?

Whatever is in a senior multivitamin.  I have naturally high potassium levels and have to watch how man bananas I eat.  If I eat too many I have ministrokes (not serious, they resolve in about 24 hours, but they do require hospitalization.)  I limit myself to one banana a week.

The charley horses are definitely from sitting in the wrong position for too long at the keyboard.  I need to stop being so addicted to I2 and the net.

[Callaway]

I need to remember to take a short walk after each meal.  I've been spending too much time at the computer and my legs are starting to cramp up at night.  Since I eat most of my meals at the computer it will give my legs a bit of a stretch.

How much magnesium and potassium are you getting?

Whatever is in a senior multivitamin.  I have naturally high potassium levels and have to watch how man bananas I eat.  If I eat too many I have ministrokes (not serious, they resolve in about 24 hours, but they do require hospitalization.)  I limit myself to one banana a week.

The charley horses are definitely from sitting in the wrong position for too long at the keyboard.  I need to stop being so addicted to I2 and the net.

OK, that makes sense, but electrolyte imbalances can also cause them.

I got them when I was pregnant and wound up taking magnesium in addition to the calcium supplement and prenatal vitamin I was already taking.

[odeon]

Of course the need to prove it. I just think children should have the same protection as anyone else.

Yes, i agree with that statement 100%

Makes me wonder if these things go on a lot more than we like to think, and they get dismissed just because it is so often the case to keep it in the family? hmm.

My own brothers would resort to 'mental cruelty' - much more effective.  When i was a teenager and started dating,  they found it amusing to get the family photo's out to show 'boyfriend' - carefully selecting the one when i was 5years old in the noddy playing in the bath!  or the one where i fell asleep in my sunday dinner!   

A lot of very bad things have been kept in the family.

[odeon]

Thinking I should go to bed.

[Charlotte Quin]

I think I need to expand my number of friends. I'm starting to get obsessed and dependant on the small number I have

["couldbecousin"]

 I can't believe my local supermarket doesn't carry duct tape anymore! 

[El]

I think it's disturbing when kids learn to manipulate the system young. Like discovering how many adults jump into a frenzy if you claim abuse. It doesn't mention how old the younger sister was. She could have been eight or fourteen. It also doesn't mention whether their mother encouraged her to call the police. If the police thought it was a case of domestic violence, wouldn't the courts have done more than slap the boy with a fine?

The District Courts in Sweden are amateurs and sometimes take on cases that are then ridiculed by news papers all the way to the higher instances that quickly throw them out. It's nowhere near a perfect system and it's made worse by the authorities' tendency to overprotect the citizens.

Curious:  How do you think the court system in Sweden compares to what we have in the US?  I'm of the opinion that we're pretty well fucked through and through over here, but I know it could be a lot worse.