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Author Topic: Copycat Jesus Mythicism  (Read 3578 times)

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Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #60 on: January 15, 2012, 09:33:32 PM »
you clearly have mental issues. you keep returning to this "evidence", and by now im not even sure what it is you want me to prove, you talk about yourself in narcissistic terms "strong intellectual challenges", and you are absolutely incapable of grasping that YOU are the problem, not the topic.
i have discussed the topic with normal people on many an occation. you do not qualify.

you are a disturbed individual calavera. ive had more than enough with the likes of you. if you wanna do this little dance back and forth forever, fine, but dont expect me to "sit down" and discuss serious topics with you. its not gonna happen. and you are free to tell yourself that this is because you are staggeringly superior. i really dont give a shit. is that okay?

Offline Calavera

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2012, 12:52:12 AM »
you clearly have mental issues. you keep returning to this "evidence", and by now im not even sure what it is you want me to prove, you talk about yourself in narcissistic terms "strong intellectual challenges", and you are absolutely incapable of grasping that YOU are the problem, not the topic.

I'm requesting evidence for this:

to put it bluntly: "jesus" "yisa" aka many other names, mostly before christianity, is simply one of many symbols of the solistice/sun.

You made no effort whatsoever to provide the needed evidence in your discussion with Butterflies for such an extraordinary claim. It's extraordinary because you won't read about it in any of the ancient myths pertaining to the characters said to have been prior images of Jesus "the sun god".

We have access to various primary sources for Egyptian mythology, Greek mythology, Roman mythology, Norse mythology, Hinduism, Buddhism, various pagan beliefs predating Jesus and the Gospel story, and none of them support what you say.

So what exactly are you going by, ZEGH? The lies propagated by frauds since the last couple centuries or so, the latest of them being an epitome of narcissism herself, Acharya S (or Dr Murdock)? I've read one of her books. A lot of references, but none of them relevant or having anything to do with any of the needed primary sources. She makes lots of empty claims, puffs herself up so many times, and enjoys modelling herself all over the Internet.

And you're suggesting that I'm the narcissist here? Why? Because I only want to accept what the evidence points me to?

That phrase "strong intellectual challenges" that you label as narcissistic terms is just there to provoke you into giving me what I've been requesting this whole time or into admitting you were wrong all along. You have done neither, and this can really get extremely annoying. Fortunately for me, I'm quite used to these dodges from people like you ... as I actually interacted with that crazy psycho bitch Acharya S and her fucked up fanboys/fangirls in their own forum for quite a while. It is basically impossible to reason with people like them, but I would have hoped that you'd be better and actually post the much sought-after evidence. Sadly, I continue to be disappointed.

And, no, ZEGH, I'm not the problem here. And neither is the topic itself. And you could easily not be the problem if you were just to own up to not being able to meet the challenge and just say you have no fair basis for the claim you're making. But you choose to make this a big problem for us both. All I want is evidence. Do you think it's unfair in this case to ask for evidence for something that, if true, would be very easy to provide evidence for? Heck, I'd probably have read about the pre-Jesus Gospel stories from when I was still a kid if what you're saying is true. But I never did, although I read (and continue to read) a lot of ancient myths and legends from antiquities?

What about you? Have you ever read an ancient Egyptian/Greek/Roman/Norse myth? Or story in some Hindu/Buddhist source? Did you ever read anything in any such story predating Jesus that would support what you say?

I highly doubt it.

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i have discussed the topic with normal people on many an occation. you do not qualify.

Actually, if anything, I do qualify for this discussion just as much as you do. Neither I nor you are experts in this field, but the experts definitely agree that Acharya's rubbish is just that - rubbish.

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you are a disturbed individual calavera. ive had more than enough with the likes of you. if you wanna do this little dance back and forth forever, fine, but dont expect me to "sit down" and discuss serious topics with you. its not gonna happen. and you are free to tell yourself that this is because you are staggeringly superior. i really dont give a shit. is that okay?

You know, I've been thinking. All these attacks and ad hominems you've been flicking at me ... maybe they have something to do with you? Who knows?

I'm thinking the person you're really addressing here is not me but the person you see when you look in the mirror. This whole "dancing back and forth" does sound like you after all.

I'm always happy to address every serious point you make pertaining to this topic. But you've chosen to attack and resort to cheap tactics. Not a good sign of confidence in what you're saying.

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2012, 09:08:02 AM »
^
all that typing, when i have clearly let you know, im not discussing it with you.
thats a sign of narcissism
that is mentally ill

you seem unable to grasp this, kindov like we are all unable to see a color that doesnt exist, you are unable to grasp that i dont want anything to do with you.
i tried to explain it to you: i will discuss with professor, i will discuss with butterflies

"I'm always happy to address every serious point you make pertaining to this topic. But you've chosen to attack and resort to cheap tactics. Not a good sign of confidence in what you're saying."
^
you are delusional. you still seem to think i am discussing the topic with you. i am not. you see, for there to be a discussion, both parties must be "in on it". do you understand? finally? do you comprehend?

i will not discuss with you, because theres something wrong with you, and your "vibes" make me uncomfortable. get help.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 09:21:10 AM by ZEGH8578 »

Offline Calavera

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2012, 02:11:50 PM »
^
all that typing, when i have clearly let you know, im not discussing it with you.
thats a sign of narcissism
that is mentally ill

Yeah, sure. We get it already. I'm a messed up narcissist according to you. Why? Because I keep addressing your points and because I refuse to submit myself to your narcissistic attitude, right?

I said it in my previous reply, and I'll say it again, you are really just talking to yourself when you say these things. It's called projection.

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you seem unable to grasp this, kindov like we are all unable to see a color that doesnt exist, you are unable to grasp that i dont want anything to do with you.

You don't want to, and you can't have a discussion anyway. Not when you refuse to be honest with yourself.

Do you really think, at the core, I'm desperate for you to provide evidence and make this a very interesting conversation? Not really. I know you don't have the evidence. I just want you to eventually admit you were wrong and misleading with the claims you made as a so-called "professor" of Biblical history and ancient myths. But I highly suspect that you'll never do so ... just like Acharya S and her fanboys. And that itself is ironically due to narcissism itself.

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i tried to explain it to you: i will discuss with professor, i will discuss with butterflies

And yet even with them, you didn't provide evidence. Butterflies made a very good point in that thread over at Spasticity which you failed to address reasonably.

And as for the Iran discussion, you were the one who started hurling ad hominem against me for no reason other than that I expressed strong disapproval of your political opinion.

If you really wanted a civil discussion, you would've avoided the personal attacks and the strawmen, but you did it anyway, and the blame is now on me. Like a typical narcissist you are. :autism:

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"I'm always happy to address every serious point you make pertaining to this topic. But you've chosen to attack and resort to cheap tactics. Not a good sign of confidence in what you're saying."
^
you are delusional. you still seem to think i am discussing the topic with you. i am not. you see, for there to be a discussion, both parties must be "in on it". do you understand? finally? do you comprehend?

i will not discuss with you, because theres something wrong with you, and your "vibes" make me uncomfortable. get help.

Yep, you will not discuss with me because I can see the bullshit clearly in your claims. But you won't say that. So you'll attack my person instead.

Bravo, this is the "intellect" of ZEGH. Maybe ditch the cocaine and "indulge" in something healthier instead in life? Do you do sports regularly?

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2012, 02:17:08 PM »
zegh doesnt do cocaine

Offline Calavera

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2012, 02:32:07 PM »
If that's true, that's even worse.

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2012, 02:35:25 PM »
from the vigorous energy calavera puts into this, im suspecting he does cocaine  ::)

Offline Calavera

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2012, 02:41:20 PM »
NO, I do NOT do cocaine.

I do marijuana, hashish, heroin, speed, ecstasy, and so on. But NEVER cocaine. That's just taboo.

And still no evidence for your claims that would shut the hell of me up. You could've easily done it a while ago, but I guess this would be as far as you go in admitting you were wrong.

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2012, 02:42:58 PM »
he still doesnt get it
amazing

ah well,
ask me again, no wait, i mean
demand it again calavera! keep demanding it! then, tomorrow, demand it again! next week, keep demanding it!
demand it enough, and maybe ill play along with you :O

Offline Calavera

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2012, 02:43:11 PM »
Oh, and I forgot:

http://www.intensitysquared.com/index.php/topic,18830.0.html

That's a thread made by a narcissist, yours truly.

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2012, 02:48:23 PM »
there, there  ::)

Offline Calavera

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2012, 02:48:51 PM »
he still doesnt get it
amazing

ah well,
ask me again, no wait, i mean
demand it again calavera! keep demanding it! then, tomorrow, demand it again! next week, keep demanding it!
demand it enough, and maybe ill play along with you :O

I told you, I'm not really desperate for it. You would've easily provided evidence if you really did have any.

You were confident before with other posters, but now with me, you're just faltering. :cbc:

Offline ZEGH8578

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2012, 02:51:26 PM »
sigh

Offline Calavera

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2012, 02:53:26 PM »
Ok, it's clear now he has nothing to add in response to what I've argued. That is to be expected when you follow the lies of Acharya rather than go with what the evidence points to.

I guess it's time for me to do the research for ZEGH and see if what he's arguing is really based on evidence or just wishful thinking.

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Re: Copycat Jesus Mythicism
« Reply #74 on: January 17, 2012, 12:24:28 AM »
Ok, let's start with the Jesus of the Bible. Was Jesus ever worshipped as the Sun God and connected in a significant way to the solstice/sun? Let's see what the earliest extant sources about him have to say (i.e. the various books in the New Testament). If none of these books provide this connection, and neither do later books written about Jesus in the first 2-3 centuries AD, then we should safely say that Jesus was never worshipped as a Sun God by the early Church. So the question would be: who worshipped him as a Sun God?

The way to do this briefly (to save time and space) is to do an online key word search for all instances of the word "sun" in the New Testament. If none of them show any connection to Jesus' identity as some sun god in any way, then it's safe to say that the Bible has no support for what ZEGH (or, rather, what Acharya S herself) says:

I'll use the BibleGateway website (and the NIV version to be exact). Feel free to check the verses out using other translations if you don't trust the NIV.

Link to online BibleGateway search:
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/

Now, searching for the word "sun" from Matthew to Revelation, we get the following verse references (check them out in detail and context on your own if you wish):

Matthew 5:45
that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Matthew 13:6
But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

Matthew 13:43
Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Matthew 17:2
There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

Matthew 24:29
“Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

Mark 1:32
That evening after sunset the people brought to Jesus all the sick and demon-possessed.

Mark 4:6
But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

Mark 13:24
“But in those days, following that distress, “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;

Mark 16:2
Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb

Luke 1:78
because of the tender mercy of our God, by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven

Luke 4:40
At sunset, the people brought to Jesus all who had various kinds of sickness, and laying his hands on each one, he healed them.

Luke 21:25
“There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.

Luke 23:45
for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two.

Acts 2:20
The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.

Acts 7:42
But God turned away from them and gave them over to the worship of the sun, moon and stars. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: “‘Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the wilderness, people of Israel?

Acts 13:11
Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind for a time, not even able to see the light of the sun.” Immediately mist and darkness came over him, and he groped about, seeking someone to lead him by the hand.

Acts 26:13
About noon, King Agrippa, as I was on the road, I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, blazing around me and my companions.

Acts 27:20
When neither sun nor stars appeared for many days and the storm continued raging, we finally gave up all hope of being saved.

1 Corinthians 15:41
The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

Ephesians 4:26
“In your anger do not sin” : Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,

James 1:11
For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich will fade away even while they go about their business.

Revelation 1:16
In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

Revelation 6:12
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red,

Revelation 7:16
‘Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat down on them,’ nor any scorching heat.

Revelation 8:12
The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night.

Revelation 9:2
When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.

Revelation 10:1
Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars.

Revelation 12:1
A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

Revelation 16:8
The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire.

Revelation 19:17
And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,

Revelation 21:23
The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

Revelation 22:5
There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

***

As we can see, in almost every verse that the sun is brought up, it is associated with other objects similar to it, like the moon, the stars, etc. It is treated as an object separate from Jesus and even with less significance than Jesus himself as you can see in the Revelation verses.

The only verse that even treats Jesus as the sun is Luke 1:78, but if you check the context of the verse, it's within a hymn being sung by Zechariah the elderly priest (after his son John was born), and in Biblical hymns and songs and psalms as can be seen very often in the Old Testament, people are often metaphorically associated with objects depending on the point trying to be made, objects like the sun, the moon, the stars, like animals, like swords, and bows and arrows, and shields, and gazelles, and so on. And even then, that verse never actually suggests Jesus is the Sun God but that he is metaphorically the sun that rises on the people in metaphorical darkness. It does not mean that the Bible treats him as literally the Sun and that we're literally in darkness (at all times, that is).

So the Bible used as support for ZEGH's argument is out of the question. Other Christian sources at the time? Well, ZEGH needs to show any evidence from those primary sources treating Jesus as the Sun God. If he can't, then it means Christianity itself never treated Jesus as such.

Next post will attempt to see, by checking the primary sources, if Egyptian mythology had Gospel stories predating Jesus and that are for Horus or Osiris or whatever character you wish to choose from Egyptian mythology.