Genderless Children

[Adam]

Hubert, That is most likely the case

But it doesn't change the fact that influencing kids in one direction or another is wrong

Just let them be PEOPLE. Most of them who have a penis will be boys. Most who don't will be girls. But I don't see why society needs to make a big thing out of it and force it on them

The reason I think this would be great in an ideal world is that I believe someone's sex should be absolutely no one else's business, yet from birth, it is made to be everyone's business. Long before that child is even aware of it themselvs or has a say in it. Why should someone's sexual organs be something other people are entitled to know about?

[midlifeaspie]

I can't see many (if any) people agreeing with me on this, but in an ideal world, all children would be raised like this.

But don't you agree that for the vast majority of people (99.999%) their gender isn't a problem?  And if it isn't a problem for them, why not teach them to embrace it?

Agreed.  I think this is just setting them up for many future problems that they would not have had otherwise.  Raising them to do what they want regardless and be accepting of it of gender would be a better option.  One of my boys took dance the other cooking lessons and he loves to cook neither bothered me and it was encouraged because it was what they liked even though they tend to be traditionally   more of a girl thing.

This is what I think.  Toddlers have few identifying roles at a time that they need them.  Being a boy or a girl is important to their determining who they are.  If my son grows up gay, or effeminate, or a girl, I could care less.  So long as he is happy.  Trying to raise him as a third gender option "it" just seems cruel and possibly harmful.

['andersom']

Cool, you go there too. Yeah I heard about it over there and I thought it was weird. I am sure the kid will know soon anyway because he is going to learn boys have penises and girls do not and since he has one, he must be a boy. And I think the baby looks like a boy so I am calling it a he. But in that article he looked like a she but in the other one I saw, she looked like a boy. I'll stick with boy than calling him a "it."

Don't most 4 month old babies just look like... babies

:lol:

No, apparently they have a clear gender. My babies were boys. Especially the youngest.

[midlifeaspie]

Why should someone's sexual organs be something other people are entitled to know about?

Propagation of the species.  This is as crucial to humanity as eating, drinking and breathing.

[Adam]

I can't see many (if any) people agreeing with me on this, but in an ideal world, all children would be raised like this.

But don't you agree that for the vast majority of people (99.999%) their gender isn't a problem?  And if it isn't a problem for them, why not teach them to embrace it?

Agreed.  I think this is just setting them up for many future problems that they would not have had otherwise.  Raising them to do what they want regardless and be accepting of it of gender would be a better option.  One of my boys took dance the other cooking lessons and he loves to cook neither bothered me and it was encouraged because it was what they liked even though they tend to be traditionally   more of a girl thing.

This is what I think.  Toddlers have few identifying roles at a time that they need them.  Being a boy or a girl is important to their determining who they are.  If my son grows up gay, or effeminate, or a girl, I could care less.  So long as he is happy.  Trying to raise him as a third gender option "it" just seems cruel and possibly harmful.

But is that identity really a good thing?

identity itself, yes, definitely. But I see parts of the "boy" indentity being thrust upon my brother, which I feel uncomfortable about.

btw I don't mean thrust upon him by my family, I mean by school, media etc. No matter how well you try to raise a kid, they will come under different influences based solely on whether they have a penis or a vagina. Which is wrong imo

[Adam]

Why should someone's sexual organs be something other people are entitled to know about?

Propagation of the species.  This is as crucial to humanity as eating, drinking and breathing.

How would it in any way stop that happening though?

How would keeping my sex (0r your sex) private stop humans reproducing? Most females will still look like women and most males will still look like men. I'm sure you would still have found and fallen in love with your wife, whether her birth certificate had F on it or not. I'm not suggesting we all hide our gender or sex if we don't want to. I'm saying it should be no one else's business UNTIL that person allows it to be


I don't need to know whether my next door neighbour has a penis or not. I do need to eat, drink and breathe.

[midlifeaspie]

I think gender roles are actually important.  The number one predictor of a successful marriage (one that doesn't end in divorce) is well defined gender roles.  I see nothing wrong with having things that men are good at and things that women are good at, and using those strengths to balance each other's weakness.  It's a fact that men and women evolved separately to perform separate functions in society.  Just because that society has evolved off the African plains and into cities and homes doesn't mean that it is sometimes easier to use them than fight them.

[midlifeaspie]

Why should someone's sexual organs be something other people are entitled to know about?

Propagation of the species.  This is as crucial to humanity as eating, drinking and breathing.

How would it in any way stop that happening though?

How would keeping my sex (0r your sex) private stop humans reproducing? Most females will still look like women and most males will still look like men. I'm sure you would still have found and fallen in love with your wife, whether her birth certificate had F on it or not. I'm not suggesting we all hide our gender or sex if we don't want to. I'm saying it should be no one else's business UNTIL that person allows it to be


I don't need to know whether my next door neighbour has a penis or not. I do need to eat, drink and breathe.

This just seems obvious to me.  For the same reason that birds have different plumage.  If everyone looked like a homogeneous group of "people" that would remove the entire concept of sexual attraction.

[midlifeaspie]

I don't need to know whether my next door neighbour has a penis or not. I do need to eat, drink and breathe.

YOU don't, but the human race does.  Without sexual attraction between the genders the race would cease to exist at the end of the current lifespan.

[Adam]

But no one'se saying they should FIGHT them. Just that they shouldn't be forced upon them

A baby born with a penis will most likely prefer toy guns and toy cars to dolls (although it doesn't matter if they don;t)

He will most likely grow up to be a man attracted to women (although it doesn't matter if they aren't)

A marriage that doesn't end in divorce is not necessarily a successful one. And I would say the best way of having a successful relationship (yes I know I have never been married myself) would be to COMPLIMENT each other. That doesn't mean the man has to fix the sink when it breaks, if the woman can do it better. Or the woman has to cook the dinner, if the man is a better cook.

[midlifeaspie]

A marriage that doesn't end in divorce is not necessarily a successful one. And I would say the best way of having a successful relationship (yes I know I have never been married myself) would be to COMPLIMENT each other. That doesn't mean the man has to fix the sink when it breaks, if the woman can do it better. Or the woman has to cook the dinner, if the man is a better cook.

These things aren't mutually exclusive of course.

How is it that you think the pronoun "he" or "she" is forcing societal gender roles on kids?

[Adam]

I don't need to know whether my next door neighbour has a penis or not. I do need to eat, drink and breathe.

YOU don't, but the human race does.  Without sexual attraction between the genders the race would cease to exist at the end of the current lifespan.

Huh? I don't think you get what I'm saying (although to be fair, you won't be the only one lol)

I'm not suggesting we eliminate feminine women or masculine men. I am only attracted to women who "look like women" myself anyway. And most girls WILL grow up to be women.

For (most) men to be atracted to women and vice versa, we do not need to advertise everyone's sexual organs throughout their lives. it will still happen.

[Adam]

A marriage that doesn't end in divorce is not necessarily a successful one. And I would say the best way of having a successful relationship (yes I know I have never been married myself) would be to COMPLIMENT each other. That doesn't mean the man has to fix the sink when it breaks, if the woman can do it better. Or the woman has to cook the dinner, if the man is a better cook.

These things aren't mutually exclusive of course.

How is it that you think the pronoun "he" or "she" is forcing societal gender roles on kids?

In itself, of course it isn;t. It leads on to that though.

['andersom']

I have read psychological studies that believe that gender stereotypes are actually hardwired.  If you show a 6 month old boy a picture of a car and a picture of a doll he will generally choose to look at the car, and a girl will look at the doll.  Show the same babies a video of mechanical action (windshield wipers was the example) and a video of a face talking and the boy will look at mechanical action and the girl will look at the person talking.

My son has been fascinated with cars from the first moment he saw one.

I hated dolls, as a kid. And according to my girls, I only start properly looking like a woman since a couple of years ago. Didn't have the urge to identify as female, apart from the procreational bit. From the moment puberty hit me, I knew I wanted to be a Mum. Being feminine somehow wasn't part of that for me.

I don't think my not being that feminine had anything to do with my marriage not making it to twenty years. My ex keeps falling for lookalikes of me apparently. I know one case will not change statistics. But what research find can have to do with wishful thinking of the researchers.

[midlifeaspie]

we do not need to advertise everyone's sexual organs throughout their lives. it will still happen.

I'm not sure what you mean by advertising sexual organs.  What I thougt you were referencing was callings girls "she" and boys "he" and dressing them like girls or boys.