The reason for my (lack of) hostility towards Benji

[odeon]

All the modern Muslim hating stems from 9/11.

Er, no, not even close.

Sorry to be the barer of bad news you dumb cunt. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/steve-rose/911-racism-islamophobia_b_3908411.html

I guess you never heard about Salman Rushdie or the genocides at Srebrenica and Žepa, to provide you with a couple of pre-9/11 examples. In all fairness you probably were a baby back then, but a quick Google search would have saved you from the embarrassment.

You really aren't very good at this sort of thing, are you?

I like how you just throw in a name and a couple of massacres and declare yourself right.  Please provide some evidence to back up your assertions, otherwise go back to your Kenco threads.  Politics isn't for you.  I provided evidence for my claim with statistics from the FBI showing that "Hate crimes against Arabs and Muslims in the US increased by 1,700% in 2001", so your comment "not even close" is the most embarrassing thing on this thread, even more retarded than Pappy's pearls of wisdom. 

Also, what you're too retarded and out of touch with the real world to understand, is that the man in the street (especially younger working class people), haven't much of a clue about who people like Rushdie are and won't know much details about massacres in Bosnia etc.  They just think of Muslims as "ragheads" and see them mainly as terrorists and this all pretty much started with 9/11, the world changed that day.

Oh, I see, when mentioning "modern" in your original post, you meant "post-9/11" and "the US".

It is true that the Islamophobia-related crimes for 2001 went up drastically. They then went down again in 2002. The FBI has only been collecting hate crime-related data since 1992, though, and the little massacres I cherry-picked aren't even part of their numbers, just as the case of Mr Rushdie.

And since you are on this slippery slope, would you care to back up your views re the man on the street?

You really, really suck on this.

[Gopher Gary]

Oh, I see, when mentioning "modern" in your original post, you meant "post-9/11" and "the US".

Only the US is important.  Don't you limeys have any statistics? 

[odeon]

I take it you are a nationalistic gopher?

[benjimanbreeg]

All the modern Muslim hating stems from 9/11.

Er, no, not even close.

Sorry to be the barer of bad news you dumb cunt. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/steve-rose/911-racism-islamophobia_b_3908411.html

OMFG!!! Someone who takes the Huffington Post seriously!!     

The statistics quoted come from the FBI   

I shouldn't need to explain this, but, just because facts are posted in a certain paper it doesn't mean those facts are no longer facts.

But Benji, those stats do not agree with the book of Pappy. Therefore, unlike Pappy's super special and completley accurate 90% statistic on Muslims it's completley meaningless. 

The book of Mormon has more facts in it than the book of Pappy 

[benjimanbreeg]

The cafeteria type Christian is a recent phenomena. Even in the World Wars the Church held much more power and influence than they have today. Without invoking Goodwin's Law. A big reason for the ease at which Hitler was able to oppress the Jewish people was the sentiment that "the Jews murdered Jesus" and this position was held by the Roman Catholic faith up until the 1960's. The Christian religion is not a toothless organisation with no influence but going back further in history, the influence that it exerted to its followers and the nasty zealous conviction of its tenets and its leaders was the cause of a lot of intolerance and violence in its name. It did not mean that every follower of Christianity was a zealous, hateful righteous bigot BUT it DID mean that they were not the loud voices or prepare to stand up against Christianity.

Islam is the same thing now. I do not know if it is more moderate or more fanatical but it is in the same ballpark of what Christianity was a few centuries ago. I do believe that most Muslims are not radicalised nor bad people. In fact I have spoken to fundamental Muslims who can shore up their beliefs nicely and in a way that makes them decent and law abiding and good people to know. I have spoken to Moderate Muslims who are like Cultural Christians or Cultural Jewish People. 

The problem is that not only do we not know the number but any statistic you give to me is likely to look scary when you talk of mass immigration in the millions. Let's say 1 000 000 Muslims immigrate and of them 50% strongly reject the kind of values that their host country has and most of that 50% refuse to integrate. It does not then matter the number of them that are moderate. You can tell me 500 000 immigrants were easy going and compliant. That would not be my focus. You could say only 10% are real trouble. But that doesn't bother me either. What would bother me more is that that 10% was supported by people who are happy to look the other way when they are talking 13 year old brides, when they are involved in gang rape, when they sprout Western intolerance in Western countries in mosques, and the want for their own laws (Sharia) to govern them in another country.

That would bother shit out of me. When you are talking numbers of 1 000 000 people then talking of 50% or even 1% of collective zealots infiltrating a new host culture with a lot of hate and great network, then this is a problem. In addition the ability for large amount of Muslims who BECAUSE of their religion and common interest and culture will not necessarily do wrong by the new culture but will look the other way and forgive it when others do.

It don't necessarily mean everything should stop or the baby should be thrown out with the bathwater BUT there needs to be a critical examination on this issue without the fear of doing so to avoid being called a racist or an islamophobe.

People barely take the "islamophobe" branding very seriously, and rightly so.  If you even criticise Israel you get called an anti-Semite and a Nazi.  This is why people are so terrified to criticise Joooz or their alleged state.  You get people saying that you shouldn't be called a racist or "islamophobe" but call you an "anti-Semite" at the same time. 

[Yuri Bezmenov]

All the modern Muslim hating stems from 9/11.

Er, no, not even close.

Sorry to be the barer of bad news you dumb cunt. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/steve-rose/911-racism-islamophobia_b_3908411.html

OMFG!!! Someone who takes the Huffington Post seriously!!     

The statistics quoted come from the FBI   

I shouldn't need to explain this, but, just because facts are posted in a certain paper it doesn't mean those facts are no longer facts.

It isn't the statistics I have issue with, it's the false narrative they're woven into.

[benjimanbreeg]

The statistics quoted come from the FBI   

I shouldn't need to explain this, but, just because facts are posted in a certain paper it doesn't mean those facts are no longer facts.

They're lazy copy/pasters and the source link leads to a thirteen year old BBC article as the quoted source. Maybe the BBC took their time to research. the FBI numbers for 2000 and 2001 incidents are correct, but still, they cherry pick data from fifteen years ago to discuss the current state of affairs; that's because it's the biggest number ever, nothing else comes close not even by half, and the biggest number fits their narrative much better than the current numbers. The FBI website is awesome and much more interesting than any news about it. The most recent FBI table can find is for 2014, which displays 154 incidents of muslim hate crime. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2014/tables/table-1  There are calculated to be about 6 million jewish people in the US and about 3 million muslims, so muslims don't really stand out as the most statistically victimized religious group. If preferring to stick to 2001 data, page 13 of the FBI 2001 report shows 2001 was a much busier year for religious hate crime and once again, americans hate muslims and especially jews. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2001/hatecrime01.pdf

Yeah, the time of the info is kind of relevant to the whole point of the post....  The guy wrote the article in the Huffington Post in 2013 and was talking about how hate crimes against Muslims since 9/11, with "Since 9/11..." being a bit of a giveaway.  Of course the tide can go up and down a bit, and it rises back higher every time there's a terrorist attack.  It's like how "antisemitic incidents" rise every time Israel carpet bombs Gaza in the name of the Jooish people.  If someone looks the wrong way at a Jooo, it will be noted as an "antisemitic incident" and Joos will be encouraged to return 'home' to 'Israel'. 

[benjimanbreeg]

Multiculturalism just doesn't work, and with Muslims it never was meant to.

It works for people who like the taste of arab cock. 

Lucky you 

I just like looking at them. 

 

[Yuri Bezmenov]

  It's like how "antisemitic incidents" rise every time Israel carpet bombs Gaza in the name of the Jooish people.  If someone looks the wrong way at a Jooo, it will be noted as an "antisemitic incident" and Joos will be encouraged to return 'home' to 'Israel'.

[benjimanbreeg]

All the modern Muslim hating stems from 9/11.

Er, no, not even close.

Sorry to be the barer of bad news you dumb cunt. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/steve-rose/911-racism-islamophobia_b_3908411.html

I guess you never heard about Salman Rushdie or the genocides at Srebrenica and Žepa, to provide you with a couple of pre-9/11 examples. In all fairness you probably were a baby back then, but a quick Google search would have saved you from the embarrassment.

You really aren't very good at this sort of thing, are you?

I like how you just throw in a name and a couple of massacres and declare yourself right.  Please provide some evidence to back up your assertions, otherwise go back to your Kenco threads.  Politics isn't for you.  I provided evidence for my claim with statistics from the FBI showing that "Hate crimes against Arabs and Muslims in the US increased by 1,700% in 2001", so your comment "not even close" is the most embarrassing thing on this thread, even more retarded than Pappy's pearls of wisdom. 

Also, what you're too retarded and out of touch with the real world to understand, is that the man in the street (especially younger working class people), haven't much of a clue about who people like Rushdie are and won't know much details about massacres in Bosnia etc.  They just think of Muslims as "ragheads" and see them mainly as terrorists and this all pretty much started with 9/11, the world changed that day.

Oh, I see, when mentioning "modern" in your original post, you meant "post-9/11" and "the US".

It is true that the Islamophobia-related crimes for 2001 went up drastically. They then went down again in 2002. The FBI has only been collecting hate crime-related data since 1992, though, and the little massacres I cherry-picked aren't even part of their numbers, just as the case of Mr Rushdie.

And since you are on this slippery slope, would you care to back up your views re the man on the street?

You really, really suck on this.

"All the modern Muslim hating stems from 9/11."  You would have to be a complete imbecile and mentally retarded to think I meant pre-9/11 by that statement, but then I guess you are so i'll let you off.  You were just clutching at straws trying to find something to argue with me about, but it backfired and you've made a real fool of yourself 

Stop back peddling you slippery twat.  Just learn to accept when you're wrong, because it's going to happen a lot if you try to talk about issues that are too much for you.

Hate crimes against Muslims went down in 2002, but blowing up their countries had just begun, and the wars against the Muslim world are part of that hatred.  I do wonder if you'd explain why you cited a massacre against thousands of Muslims as the stem of people in general starting to hate Muslims, surely that would gain Muslims some sympathy?  Or perhaps you became so confused in your hurry to find a rebuttal that you thought Muslims were the ones carrying out the killings?  We could find massacres all over the place from different times and say that's when that particular group started to be hated, which is what you seem to have attempted.  The general feeling among populations against Muslims has altered completely since 9/11, and it has escalated and become more complex ever since, with more wars being started against the Muslim world by us. 

Nice try.  It is down to you to back up your claim first, if you're even sure what your claim was? 

[benjimanbreeg]

All the modern Muslim hating stems from 9/11.

Er, no, not even close.

Sorry to be the barer of bad news you dumb cunt. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/steve-rose/911-racism-islamophobia_b_3908411.html

OMFG!!! Someone who takes the Huffington Post seriously!!     

The statistics quoted come from the FBI   

I shouldn't need to explain this, but, just because facts are posted in a certain paper it doesn't mean those facts are no longer facts.

It isn't the statistics I have issue with, it's the false narrative they're woven into.

What false narrative? 

[benjimanbreeg]

  It's like how "antisemitic incidents" rise every time Israel carpet bombs Gaza in the name of the Jooish people.  If someone looks the wrong way at a Jooo, it will be noted as an "antisemitic incident" and Joos will be encouraged to return 'home' to 'Israel'.

Hitler worked with ancient aliens to get German Jooz into Israel, so i'm not sure what's with the picture?

[Arya Quinn]

The cafeteria type Christian is a recent phenomena. Even in the World Wars the Church held much more power and influence than they have today. Without invoking Goodwin's Law. A big reason for the ease at which Hitler was able to oppress the Jewish people was the sentiment that "the Jews murdered Jesus" and this position was held by the Roman Catholic faith up until the 1960's. The Christian religion is not a toothless organisation with no influence but going back further in history, the influence that it exerted to its followers and the nasty zealous conviction of its tenets and its leaders was the cause of a lot of intolerance and violence in its name. It did not mean that every follower of Christianity was a zealous, hateful righteous bigot BUT it DID mean that they were not the loud voices or prepare to stand up against Christianity.

Islam is the same thing now. I do not know if it is more moderate or more fanatical but it is in the same ballpark of what Christianity was a few centuries ago. I do believe that most Muslims are not radicalised nor bad people. In fact I have spoken to fundamental Muslims who can shore up their beliefs nicely and in a way that makes them decent and law abiding and good people to know. I have spoken to Moderate Muslims who are like Cultural Christians or Cultural Jewish People. 

The problem is that not only do we not know the number but any statistic you give to me is likely to look scary when you talk of mass immigration in the millions. Let's say 1 000 000 Muslims immigrate and of them 50% strongly reject the kind of values that their host country has and most of that 50% refuse to integrate. It does not then matter the number of them that are moderate. You can tell me 500 000 immigrants were easy going and compliant. That would not be my focus. You could say only 10% are real trouble. But that doesn't bother me either. What would bother me more is that that 10% was supported by people who are happy to look the other way when they are talking 13 year old brides, when they are involved in gang rape, when they sprout Western intolerance in Western countries in mosques, and the want for their own laws (Sharia) to govern them in another country.

That would bother shit out of me. When you are talking numbers of 1 000 000 people then talking of 50% or even 1% of collective zealots infiltrating a new host culture with a lot of hate and great network, then this is a problem. In addition the ability for large amount of Muslims who BECAUSE of their religion and common interest and culture will not necessarily do wrong by the new culture but will look the other way and forgive it when others do.

It don't necessarily mean everything should stop or the baby should be thrown out with the bathwater BUT there needs to be a critical examination on this issue without the fear of doing so to avoid being called a racist or an islamophobe.

People barely take the "islamophobe" branding very seriously, and rightly so.  If you even criticise Israel you get called an anti-Semite and a Nazi.  This is why people are so terrified to criticise Joooz or their alleged state.  You get people saying that you shouldn't be called a racist or "islamophobe" but call you an "anti-Semite" at the same time.

Even holocaust survivors have been dubbed as "anti-semites" for speaking out against Israel's actions. Having experienced a genocide first hand, they know exactly what one looks like...Yet they are still labeled as anti-semites.

[Jack]

The statistics quoted come from the FBI   

I shouldn't need to explain this, but, just because facts are posted in a certain paper it doesn't mean those facts are no longer facts.

They're lazy copy/pasters and the source link leads to a thirteen year old BBC article as the quoted source. Maybe the BBC took their time to research. the FBI numbers for 2000 and 2001 incidents are correct, but still, they cherry pick data from fifteen years ago to discuss the current state of affairs; that's because it's the biggest number ever, nothing else comes close not even by half, and the biggest number fits their narrative much better than the current numbers. The FBI website is awesome and much more interesting than any news about it. The most recent FBI table can find is for 2014, which displays 154 incidents of muslim hate crime. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2014/tables/table-1  There are calculated to be about 6 million jewish people in the US and about 3 million muslims, so muslims don't really stand out as the most statistically victimized religious group. If preferring to stick to 2001 data, page 13 of the FBI 2001 report shows 2001 was a much busier year for religious hate crime and once again, americans hate muslims and especially jews. https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-crime/2001/hatecrime01.pdf

Yeah, the time of the info is kind of relevant to the whole point of the post....  The guy wrote the article in the Huffington Post in 2013 and was talking about how hate crimes against Muslims since 9/11, with "Since 9/11..." being a bit of a giveaway.  Of course the tide can go up and down a bit, and it rises back higher every time there's a terrorist attack.  It's like how "antisemitic incidents" rise every time Israel carpet bombs Gaza in the name of the Jooish people.  If someone looks the wrong way at a Jooo, it will be noted as an "antisemitic incident" and Joos will be encouraged to return 'home' to 'Israel'.

The tide of muslim hate crime has been fairly stabilized since 2002, though yes still higher than pre-9/11, but wouldn't one expect it to be? Actually was surprised the 2001 figures weren't more, and considering it happened so late in the year would expect the 2002 number to be much higher too. Personally don't like when people use percentages to show increases in this manner. 17 times more likely from 2000-2001 doesn't sound nearly as shocking as 1,700%, when if the number were to drop to zero it could only decline by 100%. No one can make amazing counter arguments that muslim hate crime dropped 1,100 of those percents the very next year, no only an unamazing 70%. When calculating the total percentage of total hate crime belonging to a specific group, and then factoring the percentage they represent in the population, muslims are statistically very similar victims of hate crime as blacks, but the jewish are statistically almost twice as likely to be victimized than either blacks or muslims. If one is going to use these figures as a wide sweeping brush to characterize the mentality of an entire general public, then might as well say the average man on the street hates blacks, muslims and especially jews. Though if hate crime stats say anything about the average citizen in a country of over 300 million people, they clearly say the average person probably doesn't give a crap, at least not enough to commit a crime over it, and it's unfair to make assumptions about an entire general public based on its criminal element. If it's fair to do that, then it's fair to hate all muslims.

[Jack]

What false narrative?

The false narrative is that a handful of criminals somehow represent the mentality of a nation.