Why do you americans have such faggoty gun laws?

[Semicolon]

The only thing that I know for sure is, that our own gun laws should remain.

This is possibly the very first sensible thing you have ever posted.

I have to agree regarding our own gun laws.

They  (the laws regarding ownership, etc) should remain or better yet, be set back to The Second Amendment of our own constitution, thus removing all later restrictions.

I applaud the possibility of dualism in your thinking, but ask you to think this through and maybe tell us why one set of FREEDOM laws is good for one set of people and NOT good for all people.

I am not convinced that I have ever met a person that does not have a right to defend his/her own life and further his/her own freedom.

Firstly, you do know I'm British? Scottish, now living in N.Ireland. I meant that our gun laws should stay as they are. I honestly don't don't know whether your gun laws should stay as they are, or not.


For me, guns are not a freedom issue. They are a public safety issue. I can understand that in your country gun crime is out of control, and many of you feel that the only way to keep yourselves and your family safe is to own a gun. Basically to fight fire with fire. I can understand that if America banned guns tomorrow, the criminals would keep their guns, and possibly find it easy to replace those guns as they broke. American criminals probably have such a culture of gun ownership that there would be no way of removing guns from the criminal element. If you ban guns, then you would possibly only be removing them from the law abiders. It may create a system where the bad guys have weapons and the good guys don't. This would not be good.

Britain is a completely different situation though. We do not have a culture of gun ownership. Our criminals don't have a culture of gun ownership. If you allow people to own guns, then you obviously allow criminals to own guns. If someone breaks into my home, I know I'll lose some stuff. The insurance will pay up, and nobody is likely to get hurt. If the homeowner has a gun, and the intruder has a gun, then one of us is likely to die. I would much rather nobody had guns, than everyone have guns. There is no way of ensuring that good people have guns and bad people don't. I am certain that allowing gun ownership would only create a more violent society.

Also, and possibly most importantly, we both live in a democracy. In my country, the vast majority do not want to introduce guns to our society. This should be respected. As far as I know, the majority of Americans want to be allowed guns. This also should be respected.

Not quite. I, as a person, have a right to not have criminals break into my house. In Britain, the police and the courts enforce this right. In America, the police and the courts enforce this, but citizens also enforce their rights. I do not have to tolerate someone trying to take my stuff, just because the police desire a monopoly on violence. I can stand up for myself, and I can use force to do so. This also works against governments: I have a right to protect myself from government oppression. This right includes free speech, the right to vote, the right to petition, etc. In my view, the government of Great Britain is oppressive. You do not have the same rights that I have, as an American citizen. If the British government decided to become an oppressive dictatorship and ignore the rights of its citizens, British citizens would have a greatly reduced ability to do anything about it.

The idea of rising up against an oppressive government seems to be something I hear a lot of Americans talking about. It's an idea that seems to be ingrained in the American psyche. We don't seem to have that idea in our country. If we don't like our government, we can elect a different one. Even if we were allowed guns, and our government did become oppressive, I don't think we would rise up.

You are right about Amercan freedom, you guys do seem to have a different type of government. You may have more freedom, but at a cost, it seems easier to totally fail in your society. We have safety nets, we have welfare for the poor, although it is getting constantly eroded. We have the NHS, although it too is being constantly eroded.

However, I've never been able to fully reconcile the fact that America locks up so many minor criminals, with the idea of America being such a free country.

Scots aren't naturally suspicious of the British government? I've heard about independence movements in Scotland, and the country has a history of warfare against England. You also seem to have a lot of national pride.

America was born of revolution, and the Constitution is based on the principles of the Enlightenment. Every schoolchild (at least where I live) learns about the injustices that the colonial Americans suffered at the hands of the British government. It's in our past to be suspicious of any government asserting control over us, because we know what can happen when a government is allowed to rule without having to answer to the people.

[Squidusa]

Yes, apologies, was Osensitive1 before. Forgot you've been away a bit.

So Jack is Osensitive1? okay

yeah. and I recently changed my name too. I used to be General Razorbeard.

 

['Butterflies']

The only thing that I know for sure is, that our own gun laws should remain.

This is possibly the very first sensible thing you have ever posted.

I have to agree regarding our own gun laws.

They  (the laws regarding ownership, etc) should remain or better yet, be set back to The Second Amendment of our own constitution, thus removing all later restrictions.

I applaud the possibility of dualism in your thinking, but ask you to think this through and maybe tell us why one set of FREEDOM laws is good for one set of people and NOT good for all people.

I am not convinced that I have ever met a person that does not have a right to defend his/her own life and further his/her own freedom.

Firstly, you do know I'm British? Scottish, now living in N.Ireland. I meant that our gun laws should stay as they are. I honestly don't don't know whether your gun laws should stay as they are, or not.


For me, guns are not a freedom issue. They are a public safety issue. I can understand that in your country gun crime is out of control, and many of you feel that the only way to keep yourselves and your family safe is to own a gun. Basically to fight fire with fire. I can understand that if America banned guns tomorrow, the criminals would keep their guns, and possibly find it easy to replace those guns as they broke. American criminals probably have such a culture of gun ownership that there would be no way of removing guns from the criminal element. If you ban guns, then you would possibly only be removing them from the law abiders. It may create a system where the bad guys have weapons and the good guys don't. This would not be good.

Britain is a completely different situation though. We do not have a culture of gun ownership. Our criminals don't have a culture of gun ownership. If you allow people to own guns, then you obviously allow criminals to own guns. If someone breaks into my home, I know I'll lose some stuff. The insurance will pay up, and nobody is likely to get hurt. If the homeowner has a gun, and the intruder has a gun, then one of us is likely to die. I would much rather nobody had guns, than everyone have guns. There is no way of ensuring that good people have guns and bad people don't. I am certain that allowing gun ownership would only create a more violent society.

Also, and possibly most importantly, we both live in a democracy. In my country, the vast majority do not want to introduce guns to our society. This should be respected. As far as I know, the majority of Americans want to be allowed guns. This also should be respected.

Not quite. I, as a person, have a right to not have criminals break into my house. In Britain, the police and the courts enforce this right. In America, the police and the courts enforce this, but citizens also enforce their rights. I do not have to tolerate someone trying to take my stuff, just because the police desire a monopoly on violence. I can stand up for myself, and I can use force to do so. This also works against governments: I have a right to protect myself from government oppression. This right includes free speech, the right to vote, the right to petition, etc. In my view, the government of Great Britain is oppressive. You do not have the same rights that I have, as an American citizen. If the British government decided to become an oppressive dictatorship and ignore the rights of its citizens, British citizens would have a greatly reduced ability to do anything about it.

The idea of rising up against an oppressive government seems to be something I hear a lot of Americans talking about. It's an idea that seems to be ingrained in the American psyche. We don't seem to have that idea in our country. If we don't like our government, we can elect a different one. Even if we were allowed guns, and our government did become oppressive, I don't think we would rise up.

You are right about Amercan freedom, you guys do seem to have a different type of government. You may have more freedom, but at a cost, it seems easier to totally fail in your society. We have safety nets, we have welfare for the poor, although it is getting constantly eroded. We have the NHS, although it too is being constantly eroded.

However, I've never been able to fully reconcile the fact that America locks up so many minor criminals, with the idea of America being such a free country.

Scots aren't naturally suspicious of the British government? I've heard about independence movements in Scotland, and the country has a history of warfare against England. You also seem to have a lot of national pride.

America was born of revolution, and the Constitution is based on the principles of the Enlightenment. Every schoolchild (at least where I live) learns about the injustices that the colonial Americans suffered at the hands of the British government. It's in our past to be suspicious of any government asserting control over us, because we know what can happen when a government is allowed to rule without having to answer to the people.

Some Scots want independence, some don't. The split seems to be fairly even. It is a totally non violent movement though. The warfare between Scotland and England was a long time ago, and is well in the past. I do want independence, but never at the cost of lives. Virtually no Scots have any interest in fighting England. Those of us that want independence want a close and friendly relationship with our cliosest neighbour.

At the moment the Conservatives, our equivalent of your Republican party are in power in Britain. They are hated in Scotland. Scotland is traditionally signifigantly to the left of England politicaly.

[TheoK]

The idea of rising up against an oppressive government seems to be something I hear a lot of Americans talking about. It's an idea that seems to be ingrained in the American psyche. We don't seem to have that idea in our country. If we don't like our government, we can elect a different one. Even if we were allowed guns, and our government did become oppressive, I don't think we would rise up.

You are right about Amercan freedom, you guys do seem to have a different type of government. You may have more freedom, but at a cost, it seems easier to totally fail in your society. We have safety nets, we have welfare for the poor, although it is getting constantly eroded. We have the NHS, although it too is being constantly eroded.

However, I've never been able to fully reconcile the fact that America locks up so many minor criminals, with the idea of America being such a free country.

That's were most Europeans think wrong. I almost get a stroke when discussing this with other Swedes too, then 99% of them, including the gun owners, couldn't dream of an uprising, no matter what. Freedom isn't for free, unless everyone becomes an angel. In the real world freedom costs, and the currcency is blood. It depends on people themselves whether it should be their blood or the oppressor's blood. If you're a coward, you for sure will have to pay the bill sooner or later. But if you are brave and stand up for your rights, it might be the oppressor who has to pay.

[TheoK]

Since most governments have oppressed people since the beginning of history, I find it 100% unrealistic to believe in anything else than that a government is something (neccesarily?) evil, that should have as little power as ever possible.

[Scrapheap]