A scenario I thought about Bin Laden.

[Squidusa]

Something I was just wondering.
Say in a hypothetical scenario  , Osama Bin Laden had gone insane (ok MORE insane  ) and was no longer his former self therefore not a threat.

Would there still be a reason to kill him?

Personally I think he should be locked away to avoid him regaining his former self , but idk.

Was just something that popped into my head. 

OK, for the sake of argument, say that I was perfectly sane and tortured your whole family to death while you watched and heard their screams of agony, but I left only you alive.

Then say I tortured 3000 others to death under similar circumstances.

Then I went on the run and evaded arrest for ten years, but I got Alzheimer's Disease shortly before I was captured.

Wouldn't you still want me to fry for what I did to your whole family and the other 3000 people?

No actually I wouldn't.

I don't believe it's right to destroy someone (especially with alzheimers disease) for what their past self did.
When you have something like Alzheimers you basically become an old shell of yourself.

[Osensitive1]

*snip*

The fact that you'd potentially see a man in that kind of mental state dead honestly makes you as bad as he was imo.

The concept of killing killers may never sit right with me either, though have never had such things touch home so consider myself to be fortunate in my point of view.

[midlifeaspie]

The fact that you'd potentially see a man in that kind of mental state dead honestly makes you as bad as he was imo.

I think that might be a touch hyperbolic 

[Squidusa]

*snip*

The fact that you'd potentially see a man in that kind of mental state dead honestly makes you as bad as he was imo.

The concept of killing killers may never sit right with me either, though have never had such things touch home so consider myself to be fortunate in my point of view.

It's not so much killing killers , it's the advocation of killing someone who is in actuality no threat due to hatred and vendetta is what I have a problem with.
But I do agree with you , two wrongs have never and will never make a right.

The fact that you'd potentially see a man in that kind of mental state dead honestly makes you as bad as he was imo.

I think that might be a touch hyperbolic 

At the risk of sounding stupid I'm afraid I'm unsure what "hyperbolic" means. 

[Osensitive1]

It's not so much killing killers , it's the advocation of killing someone who is in actuality no threat due to hatred and vendetta is what I have a problem with.

Yes, understood you were differentiating between the two, though have trouble making this distinction myself.

But I do agree with you , two wrongs have never and will never make a right.

It's one of those views that don't see changing, but easily see how it could change.

[Squidusa]

It's not so much killing killers , it's the advocation of killing someone who is in actuality no threat due to hatred and vendetta is what I have a problem with.

Yes, understood you were differentiating between the two, though have trouble making this distinction myself.

But I do agree with you , two wrongs have never and will never make a right.

It's one of those views that don't see changing, but easily see how it could change.

 

[Callaway]

*snip*

The fact that you'd potentially see a man in that kind of mental state dead honestly makes you as bad as he was imo.

The concept of killing killers may never sit right with me either, though have never had such things touch home so consider myself to be fortunate in my point of view.

It's not so much killing killers , it's the advocation of killing someone who is in actuality no threat due to hatred and vendetta is what I have a problem with.
But I do agree with you , two wrongs have never and will never make a right.

The fact that you'd potentially see a man in that kind of mental state dead honestly makes you as bad as he was imo.

I think that might be a touch hyperbolic 

At the risk of sounding stupid I'm afraid I'm unsure what "hyperbolic" means. 

From Wikipedia:
Hyperbole (pronounced /haɪˈpɜrbəliː/ hy-PUR-bə-lee[1]; from ancient Greek ὑπερβολή 'exaggeration') is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.

[Squidusa]

*snip*

The fact that you'd potentially see a man in that kind of mental state dead honestly makes you as bad as he was imo.

The concept of killing killers may never sit right with me either, though have never had such things touch home so consider myself to be fortunate in my point of view.

It's not so much killing killers , it's the advocation of killing someone who is in actuality no threat due to hatred and vendetta is what I have a problem with.
But I do agree with you , two wrongs have never and will never make a right.

The fact that you'd potentially see a man in that kind of mental state dead honestly makes you as bad as he was imo.

I think that might be a touch hyperbolic 

At the risk of sounding stupid I'm afraid I'm unsure what "hyperbolic" means. 

From Wikipedia:
Hyperbole (pronounced /haɪˈpɜrbəliː/ hy-PUR-bə-lee[1]; from ancient Greek ὑπερβολή 'exaggeration') is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.

Thanks 

And to answer your Question MLA , no I don't think it's hyperbolic.
That is my honest opinion I mean lets look at it this way.

Al Quaida ordered the murder of harmless , people for no reason.
If you were to kill a terrorist in the state I described where he would be harmless , it would have no reason.

Thats how I think it is no better , the killing of something vunerable and/or harmless for the sake of revenge , is un-justified.

This is just my opinion of course.

[eris]

I actually know of a similar type ( ok its not similar) situation

I know someone that was a horrible person. She was a dreadful alcoholic that abused and neglected her children, and let other people hurt her kids. She was really a dreadfully mean and wretched person with anger issues, and she was also a thief and a whore and basically a horrible person. Well, after 40 years of this, the booze kind of rotted her brain. Now she is 60, barely remembers her name, and kind of just lives day to day with no memory of what happened. She is on psych medication now and doesn't drink anymore. She is just a normal sad person now that doesn't have drunken rage explosions anymore, and has no memory of anything she has ever done.

Should she be forgiven ? Should she be punished for what she has done even though she doesn't remember ?

Isn't evilness all about intentions ?

And what intention, past or present ?  

[bodie]

i am actually quite the other way normally - as in i don't agree with the
death sentence.  i have always been against it.

this bin laden man was a whole different ball game,  and 9/11 affected
me pretty badly actually.  I got rid of my TV for one, and i have never
been able to step on a plane since.  I recall seeing a mobile phone in
the rubble that was still intact and the screen said something like 138 missed
calls.   I still see that image sometimes.

therefore i have been able to 'dehumanize' him.  It's not like he was sorry
-posting his shit on you tube - gloating.  If you had of said prior to him
having dementure he said he was sorry,  then i would not be able to
dehumanize him, not if he was displaying human characteristics like remorse, so
in that instance i would not kill him.

also, saying that if i were the one that had to go pull the 'trigger'  and i found
a weak, dribbly, disorientated old man - i probably wouldn't be able to do it
anyway.

as it stands, bin laden had what was coming to him.  he chose his career,  he decided
to make 'murder' his line iof business,  his victims didn't - hell they thought they
were just going to work in an office...  live by the sword, die by the sword and all that

[bodie]

I actually know of a similar type ( ok its not similar) situation

I know someone that was a horrible person. She was a dreadful alcoholic that abused and neglected her children, and let other people hurt her kids. She was really a dreadfully mean and wretched person with anger issues, and she was also a thief and a whore and basically a horrible person. Well, after 40 years of this, the booze kind of rotted her brain. Now she is 60, barely remembers her name, and kind of just lives day to day with no memory of what happened. She is on psych medication now and doesn't drink anymore. She is just a normal sad person now that doesn't have drunken rage explosions anymore, and has no memory of anything she has ever done.

Should she be forgiven ? Should she be punished for what she has done even though she doesn't remember ?

Isn't evilness all about intentions ?

And what intention, past or present ?  

I would pity someone like that.  Reading between the lines she seems to have 'suffered' albeit of her own accord.  the only reason i feel differently
about bin laden is i don't see any sign of him suffering,  i don't see anything human in him at all.

The woman in your story eris does come across as human.  All those bad things she done, the drinking, they are all things that we humans do
when life ain't a stroll in the park.  Punish her?  no.  no point.  she has already done it by the sound of it.  sad.

[bodie]

After thought...

When Callaway said about 'if he killed my family'  that really does make me want to
kill him, and i think i would still want to kill him no matter how pathetic and fragile 
i found him to be.  My family to me, is me and my little boy and when i look at him,
and the thought of anything happening to him,  and if i then think of someone
deliberately harming him, i just know i would want revenge.

[eris]

I actually know of a similar type ( ok its not similar) situation

I know someone that was a horrible person. She was a dreadful alcoholic that abused and neglected her children, and let other people hurt her kids. She was really a dreadfully mean and wretched person with anger issues, and she was also a thief and a whore and basically a horrible person. Well, after 40 years of this, the booze kind of rotted her brain. Now she is 60, barely remembers her name, and kind of just lives day to day with no memory of what happened. She is on psych medication now and doesn't drink anymore. She is just a normal sad person now that doesn't have drunken rage explosions anymore, and has no memory of anything she has ever done.

Should she be forgiven ? Should she be punished for what she has done even though she doesn't remember ?

Isn't evilness all about intentions ?

And what intention, past or present ? 

I would pity someone like that.  Reading between the lines she seems to have 'suffered' albeit of her own accord.  the only reason i feel differently
about bin laden is i don't see any sign of him suffering,  i don't see anything human in him at all.

The woman in your story eris does come across as human.  All those bad things she done, the drinking, they are all things that we humans do
when life ain't a stroll in the park.  Punish her?  no.  no point.  she has already done it by the sound of it.  sad.

I think that her kids would have to disagree

After thought...

When Callaway said about 'if he killed my family'  that really does make me want to
kill him, and i think i would still want to kill him no matter how pathetic and fragile 
i found him to be.  My family to me, is me and my little boy and when i look at him,
and the thought of anything happening to him,  and if i then think of someone
deliberately harming him, i just know i would want revenge.

same thing really

it's just not your family, so, you have a different opinion

[Squidusa]

After thought...

When Callaway said about 'if he killed my family'  that really does make me want to
kill him, and i think i would still want to kill him no matter how pathetic and fragile 
i found him to be.  My family to me, is me and my little boy and when i look at him,
and the thought of anything happening to him,  and if i then think of someone
deliberately harming him, i just know i would want revenge.

Think of it this way though
Osama and Al Quaida are fueled / obsessed with hate.

If you are so determined to kill someone even though they are a wea dribbly old man , a shell of their former self......what does that make you?
Does it make you "right" or as bad as them?

[RageBeoulve]

Sorry guys, I voted nuke.